Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

no

I stand by all my posts in this thread fwiw, my opinion of his standup and the show has (perhaps unsurprisingly) not changed

xxp

I uh don't think unconnected people not saying "I never liked him" is in any way comparable to victims not coming forward

wins i am trying to read your past posts for context bc i am having trouble with the parallel you're presenting there

let's pretend some people don't post about shit they don't like. lex pretend some people don't like comedy in general.

I just wanted to pop in and proclaim that I never even heard of comedy. Pretty cool huh

lol sufjan

I'm connecting the impulse to wonder aloud why ppl wouldn't come forward about a powerful figure

with the impulse to wonder aloud why ppl (sometimes the same ppl) wouldn't have spoken up about the more toxic parts of the sainted figure's public persona

It's the diet version of the wonderer

LEWY LEWY LEWY LEWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

the show went downhill after he stopped using the song in the intro imo

I am unsure why people are having problems envisioning the parallel wins is making when this exchange occurred right before he made it:

a post like that really needs to be citing specific posters' "I never liked him" posts alongside those exact same posters' "he's a genius" posts to be anything other than worthless

― treeship: a year in the life (wins), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 12:59 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the hell it does, i could as easily be asking why the 'i never liked him' people never felt comfortable saying so before now

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:02 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

for me, i felt comfortable but i didn't care enough to type out "i think louis ck is a pig to women" and then deal with the conversation that followed
would rather just move on w my life

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:03 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That's a good question! There might be good reasons they felt uncomfortable

xp

― treeship: a year in the life (wins), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:04 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

dealing with the fallout of bringing it up = #1

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:04 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Didn't wanna say

There is clearly a difference of scale here (hence "diet") but... come on ppl

I feel like the Louis C.K. problem is so similar to the Cosby problem in so many ways, like they both meticulously crafted this public persona that worked to camouflage who they actually were. I guess I was credulous enough to believe that displays of bad behavior on his show or transgressive jokes in his stand-up were like these daring attempts at presenting off-putting scenarios without retreating behind the shield of a fictional character. And that credulity was probably exactly what he was trying to engender in dopes like me.

like they both meticulously crafted this public persona that worked to camouflage who they actually were

certainly with Cosby, but Louis' persona was not that far off, i mean the movie is only the most recent and blatant example of him showing who 'he really is' and getting away with it

Was there a Cosby Show episode where he attempted to sexually assault someone?

or trying to get away with it xp

Hurting or traumatizing other people in any way is unforgivable, but I'll admit to loving his stand up for the most part. I probably still do. I empathized and found cathartic his approach to shame, self-disgust, and disappointment (without sharing his particular hang-ups). I perceived some real emotional risk-taking in being confessional that way that struck me (at the time) as valuable. The "he was always telling us he was a creep" stuff is facile because that was the entire appeal of his act. Of course he was a creep! The real question is different: Is comedy a a useful (and safe) way to explore or perform these (creepy) feelings? Maybe maybe the moral is that he shouldn't have been on a stage but talking to a therapist, where the point isn't getting a laugh from the release of pressurized super-ego but pushing through to some form of self-understanding that can analyze those feelings, or find out where the desire to hurt/traumatize others comes from, etc.

Was there a Cosby Show episode where he attempted to sexually assault someone?

Someone with a better memory will have to track it down but when the allegations were blowing up, I remember someone posting at least one standup routine Cosby did around dating that involved roofies.

lol i am super prone to getting mad in this particular discussion so i'm sorry for the bad faith reading wins

Like I was clearly way too charitable about that horrible, uncomfortable assault scene with Pamela Adlon from his show, where the discomfort of the scene was so OTT uncomfortable that I assumed it was a very knowing critique of that type of male behavior with no attempt at valorizing it or making it seem okay. When in reality it was probably more like an unreflective documentary portrayal of something he did the weekend before.

xxp DJP - I remember that too. He did a Spanish Fly routine in the late '60s iirc

to be fair, that was one bit & he was most well known from the show, and his persona was not the same as Louis'

Hurting or traumatizing other people in any way is unforgivable inexcusable.

ftfy

two women renew Bill Cosby sexual abuse allegations in Newsweek interviews

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAorIG6MZnc

Is comedy a a useful (and safe) way to explore or perform these (creepy) feelings?
no!

i guess none of you have had the personal run-ins with guys like this in the way that i have

o_O at that Cosby album title.

if anything hopefully this will be the death of fetishizing the opinions of comedians and their podcasts as if they were some great truth telling sages

men performing comedy at the expense of women is always creepy and not very useful i think.

i mean even on here there was a whole thread dedicated to a comedy blog that seemed vv misogynistic to me and very creepy, run by a bro and often targeting women in ways that bugged them personally.

I take that point. I was perhaps blind to (or able to ignore) the misogyny.

FTR, I was not saying Cosby and Louis C.K.'s public personae were in any way similar. Because that would be a stupid thing to say. I'm saying they were similarly massaged to divert attention away from their behind-the-scenes activities. With Louis, it wasn't so much 'I'm actually a totally different guy than the guy I was pretending to be' as 'I'm the guy I've been telling you I am isn't an OTT self-critical artifact of my wokeness but actually the guy I am, if you can believe it'. Although they did both share something of a didactic streak.

The "he was always telling us he was a creep" stuff is facile because that was the entire appeal of his act. Of course he was a creep!

I never liked the creepy stuff in his act but found enough other stuff to like that I could say "I like the comedy stylings of Mr CK". So "entire appeal" isn't correct imo.

pretend some people don't like comedy in general.

well it stopped being funny about 40 years ago, as Mort Sahl said

this will be the death of fetishizing the opinions of comedians and their podcasts as if they were some great truth telling sages

I find it hard to image anyone remotely similar to CK gaining his level of respect and ubiquity again, which probably means it's gonna happen

Punk ruined comedy?

It's just...I actively avoid probably 90%+ of male standup because so much of it is gross dudes being gross, and enough of Louis's stuff was good enough and seemed to rise above that muck that I assumed the waft of grossness just kind of lingered due to being part of that scene for so long. Such a sucker.

I find it hard to image anyone remotely similar to CK gaining his level of respect and ubiquity again, which probably means it's gonna happen

I don't want to name the name that popped into my head because he has never to my knowledge been accused of anything remotely like what C.K. is accused of and he just recently came back into the spotlight after suddenly losing his wife but there's at least one other generally-sad-sack comedian who has been getting more and more prominence in the mainstream that I mentally think of as being in the same comedic universe as C.K. due to his politics rather than his jokes. That similarity may be completely driven by my imagination, though.

these creepy comedy duderinos were sucking up all the air in the comedy room/keeping the gates and people who could have been flourishing were not
that is what burns me up
same situation in the music world

I don't really see the person DJP is referring to making experimental TV shows and grim webseries and dumb little art films in addition to his stand-up. Louie is kind of in a unique space.

What about him though? Is he just an example of a respected male alternative comedian?

I don't really see the person DJP is referring to making experimental TV shows and grim webseries and dumb little art films in addition to his stand-up.

Did you ever watch The Heart, She Holler? Have you seen the commercials for Happy?

Right, but he's not ~the auteur~ of those things in the same way. I feel like the more accurate analogues to CK are from previous eras, eg Albert Brooks (who would have been his costar on the now shuttered cartoon thing)

these creepy comedy duderinos were sucking up all the air in the comedy room/keeping the gates and people who could have been flourishing were not
that is what burns me up
same situation in the music world

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 2:19 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Thankfully there are actually a lot of talented women stand-ups out there, and they're at least marginally less marginal than they used to be.

(And then I instantly think about how it fucking sucks that a really good one I'm casually acquainted with is well-known in part because she's been vocal about having been raped by another comic.)

This a confusing route to take the conversation in. People are going to think you're implying things beyond his similarities as a comedian and writer.

xposts

xpost 'marginally less marinalized' I think I meant to say.

I get he's not not an auteur. I also do not mean to imply that I think revelations about him are going to erupt.

he starred in a rather dark indie comedy film called Big Fan about 8 years ago xxxxxp

damn, he has a lot of credits

marginally less marginal is not enough for me to get excited about