Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

i take his cue of lying about this to friends and co workers while continuing to do so for a decade as evidence that his best case scenario outlined in his "apology" is probably the honey coated version of a piece of shit. like why would this guy stop lying and manipulating now?

Also, the whole "You clearly admire me, do you mind if I..."

dylannn otm. I haven't followed the comedy world closely in the last 20 years but i knew who LCK ever since his writing gig w/ Conan and Pootie Tang.

Even if he looked serious when he was asking these women to watch him jerk off, there's a good chance you'd think it was leading into a joke. Even if he kept assuring you the question was genuine you might not believe it.

the assumptions you'd have to have, to go there, i can't even

like you're not that cool. no one is that cool. pharrell's not that cool. you think professional colleagues are just waiting for you to bless them?going to melt at the sight of you? be yours? or not even, just indulge you? louis has a bit in one of his standup specials, one of his most shitty bits, about girls in bars who dress a certain way, how they stand there "in order for men to fuck me". and it's like he thinks he's one of these women! that people will just want to fuck him, or watch him, or whatever! no! that literally "works" for no one!

esp with people who push other people's buttons on purpose for larfs, there's also the overwhelming need to seem "cool" -- when someone starts doing something and you're like "is this really happening? did i just show up to xyz place and wind up in abc situation?" the only thing to do in that situation is just sit there, be cool, and hope nothing weird goes down. and then it does!

"they could have gotten up and walked away" pretends that these dynamics don't exist and that's disingenuous

no one is that cool

Absolutely, but I suspect his line of persuasion was not "you're blessed to be witnessing this because I'm so cool," rather more "Ah, gawd, do me a solid here, it'll just take a minute. I just can't help it and I know it's disgusting but it's the bad hand I've been dealt by merciless fate (shrug). What can I do?"

In various bits he presents himself very much as a disgusted prisoner of his urges, and wishes he could be rid of them. It's awful, he tells us, and he hates it, and he's sick of it. Women are tourists in the land of perversions; he's a POW: "You're Jane Fonda sitting on the tank; I'm John McCain in the hut."

The self-loathing excuse-making posture does _not_ make it better, n.b.

no appeal to pity is going to save this dude

He'll be back. He'll have to keep his head down for a while, get back into people's good graces via Pamela Adlon or some other woman (like Mel Gibson tried to do through Jodie Foster). It might take him a while - it took Mel Gibson ten years - but he'll talk his way out of it eventually.

I keep picturing him writing copy/gags for Rock, Seinfeld and co on the sly, silent partner style. A little off-the-record script polishing, that sorta thing. If you've seen Mad Men, when Don pays Freddy Rumsen to come up with ideas etc.. that vibe.

Hi benjamin you are wrong, go away

the other massive assumption of course being that he whatever price he'd have to pay was acceptable, that if called out, he'd be able to wiggle free, exactly the way he did, by calling the women liars, and all the consequences for them that entails. not that those assumptions were meticulously thought through, but they formed, had to form, whatever shit-head calculus brought him to this pass. like ragu, the callous sexism, IT'S IN THERE, and like louis is so fond of saying about other people, yes that makes him a shitty person.

I think he'll be back but I'm not sure about standup.

I predict that no official celebrity apology will garner universal praise, and that's ok

"Universal praise" for a self-confessed sex-offender.

i'm saying all these confessions will be derided as disingenuous/narcissistic/tone-deaf & there's no way to do it "right" and that's okay.

aren't all confessions self-confessions? can somebody else confess for me? that could be useful. for small mistakes. not this kind of stuff.

there's the crime and then there's the cover-up, the latter of which is tremendously destructive career-wise for the women involved. has louis apologised for dismissing their accurate accounts as "rumours" and smearing their credibility? afaik he has not?

if you are looking for where the trauma happens, it's right there ^^
this happened
then the violator denied that it happened
but the people who it happened to know that it happened and no one believes them
they have to live with that
ugh

I think he'll be back but I'm not sure about standup.

Maybe not the huge venues he was playing on his most recent tours, but I could see him creeping back into the clubs. He'll test the waters, his celebrity will open the door for him. Getting to be on stage will be, hey, another illicit thrill for him. Something he shouldn't be doing.

My guess is that in the long term, though, he would end up having to go full MRA hero in order to have a viable career in big-venue standup, and I can't see him wanting to do that; I don't think he's that bad. He's going to get a huge book deal out of this, though.

it's so fucked up to realize that during the years i first got into him, "chewed up", etc, he had already done this stuff. like cosby. he had already done it, and was doing it. and i was laughing along, even with the shitty jokes about the women in bars who only exist to be fucked, he had gained my trust enough for me to sort of anxiously wave the joke away ("surely he must be sort of poking fun at himself too for thinking that haha")

With so many people being accused in the wake of Weinstein, I've been wondering whether the splitting of attention might save some of their careers. It's probably not as bad for someone's career to be thought of as part of a systemic problem than to be thought of as an isolated case.

how has Sizemore continued to work? an absolute monster. I even know someone personally who was sexually violated by him

he had already done it, and was doing it. and i was laughing along, even with the shitty jokes about the women in bars who only exist to be fucked, he had gained my trust enough for me to sort of anxiously wave the joke away ("surely he must be sort of poking fun at himself too for thinking that haha")

I once ran after him in the courtyard of a venue in Edinburgh just to say hi. I feel like a fucking moron now.

I wonder how he and the audience would deal with heckles about his sex offenses, by the time he comes back.

Even friends like Ricky Gervais, who's used to making jokes about screwed up celebrities and now he's friends with them. How would he deal with people making jokes about Louis and Depp?

louis ck before he became a gruff male feminist woke auteur obama guy, he built a career in the same arena as nick dipaolo and rich vos and his fanbase is made up of a lot of dudes that heard him talking about this actual incident (told on o&a as an abortive threesome with "hot lesbian chicks," set in montreal) and knew he was jerking it in front of women and didn't care. he is a full mra hero already (and not just to actual dirtbags but also lowkey for trt midwest reddit dads and just like very man on the internet that resents their wife).

All these conversations about critics getting caught up in this man's insane, self-absorbed, hypocritical "struggling genius" phase could have been avoided if everyone just believed me when I said Pootie Tang was good

I'd wager most of his fans came aboard during the gruff woke auteur phase, not before. xp

i could never get completely onboard w/CK even though i liked a lot of his show. something about his wise man talk show appearances put me off, goth high school notebook shit conveyed by a bummed out dad. the plastic bag from american beauty turns into a man and starts telling sad irony of life jokes to conan.

I see Jon Stewart is finally talking.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jon-stewart-stunned-by-louis-ck-scandal-1057972

Benjamin needs to read this: http://www.katykatikate.com/2017/11/pro-tip-louis-fucking-ck.html

no one needs to read that

i could never get completely onboard w/CK even though i liked a lot of his show. something about his wise man talk show appearances put me off, goth high school notebook shit conveyed by a bummed out dad. the plastic bag from american beauty turns into a man and starts telling sad irony of life jokes to conan.

the plastic bag from american beauty turns into a man and starts telling sad irony of life jokes to conan.

― omar little, Tuesday, November 14, 2017 10:34 AM (fifty-six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyIneLnxuNg

he is a full mra hero already (and not just to actual dirtbags but also lowkey for trt midwest reddit dads and just like very man on the internet that resents their wife).

Yeah, that's fair enough, and good luck to him going back on the road playing exclusively to those guys, if that's what he decides to do. They deserve each other.

i could never get completely onboard w/CK even though i liked a lot of his show. something about his wise man talk show appearances put me off, goth high school notebook shit conveyed by a bummed out dad. the plastic bag from american beauty turns into a man and starts telling sad irony of life jokes to conan.

isn't this just "alt comedy", though?

that's a big umbrella, a vague term, but there are lots of people like that, what bugs me about Louis is the pretentiousness and the "very serious issues" pose & moralizing mixed with extremely dumb bro humor

i had no idea he was an mra hero
where is the "resent their wives" part coming from? resentful about what?

that post explained a lot. i also didn't know he had claimed that the incident was an aborted threesome. this just keeps getting worse and worse. i didn't think i could like him any less and now i know i can.

i never knew about any MRA worship but it kinda makes sense. i think any comedy that involves a dude engaging in "straight talk" about women or commenting on shit like (as Tracer referenced above i think) how they dress up at the club and get dudes all worked up is going to be MRA bait.

there's stuff on Louie I can't imagine MRA dudes being down with though, eg the episode with Sarah Baker (which even then struck me as being disingenuously try-hard male feminism but was willing to ascribe it good intentions; probably wouldn't scan that way on rewatch)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=207tEp4AAV4

at the 41 min mark he tells a story about meeting two women in montreal (at an industry event) who try to get him to go out but he says no just come to my hotel. he tells another version of the story on another day in the studio, as well.

i'm sure some ilx mra anthropologist can lay out the case with more elegance. especially now, he's being brought down by feminists and the power of women (even though he's beta and endorsed obama). resenting his wife, that was a big part of louis, having kids is great, if you're not married anymore etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUH2zuvH9Oc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6fC2iXQXDo

here's a fun one where he takes on meddling feminists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bv7Q6UbG2w

from youtube channel Motivation Specialist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ClX9JUlhkw

#mgtow #redpill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf7uzpx7yfg

guys like this are so unchill about the proximity of women to their dudeness. they can't simply let women pass by without having to philosophize about their differences and their troublemaking and how you have to deal with them. this kind of stuff has been an infection in comedy and advertising and, well, life in general for eons of course.

not saying omar specifically but theres this attitude on this thread in general about "i never liked him anyway" that strikes me as disingenuous in the extreme. until now there was a vocal majority of ilxors who *refused to believe* the gawker allegations bc they were so swayed by his genius.

personally i thought his comedy was hilarious and good & didnt really get into the show, but unless you're tying the revelations to the reason his comedy's effectiveness has shifted for you im generally skeptical of people's about-face attitudes "i always thought he was lame"

i thought the show was pretty damn funny from what i saw of it (part of the first season.) my distaste isn't CK specific but more about the general distrust i have for anyone held up as a noble truth teller who sees what others don't. kinda based that on his talk show appearances more than his comedy bits. that extends even to someone like Carlin tbh, and not just individuals but life philosophies that pretend to unlock the secret to success or w/e.

https://itself.blog/2017/11/14/louis-ck-bent-over-backwards-to-tell-us-he-was-a-creep/

omar otm. feel like scott s. started a thread about this phenomenon at one point.

scott s. being scott stapp of course

I don't know who you're picking that up from, D-40. Scan through this thread from the beginning. Even before the recent news, some people thought he was good, some thought he was shit. I liked a lot of what he did and thought he was funny and it feels like Cosby all over again and it sucks and it doesn't feel safe to like anything made by dudes now.

FWIW, I would've lolled about omar's 'plastic bag from American Beauty' comment even before Louis was revealed to be a creep.

speaking only for myself, i don't esp want to make this about infighting among who found him all-the-way objectionable earlier/first/best until we can agree that all of the "resenting my wife" stuff is more than sufficient to find someone off-putting. i did! i watched his show and found his interactions with women unpleasant at best.

guys like this are so unchill about the proximity of women to their dudeness.
he has reminded me of one of the most pernicious ways attitudes like his (including those who identify with it) interfere with people's ability to live their best lives. it makes interactions (in the workplace, in the fields of creative people doing their chosen thing, virtually everywhere tbrr) between men and women (specifically) unnecessarily fraught. it doesn't have to be this way.