Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

" also im not sure i believe his accounts that yeah it was all cool and consensual" did he say that?

He has finally stated that (rough paraphrase) he had maybe convinced himself at the time that it was consensual, because of the power differential, etc, he knows now it wasn't. The statement in pitchfork is the most complete I've read (linked above, I think).

if he/his show was the first prominent Father of Daughters

the staple plot of Father Knows Best (late 50s?) was daddy giving guidance to his "princess"

i have watched Father Knows Best and I don't think the two shows are comparable, nor are the portrayals of fatherhood.

this is a symptom of the sickness of patriarchy. just because this guy tells jokes and does it with the trappings of art (black and white! new york city! jazz soundtrack!) doesn't make this meaningful in any way.
so otm

so many ways to be creative and express difficult ideas -- and I Love You Daddy is what he chose
yikes

xp - not very comparable in terms of portrayal, sure, but FKB qualifies as "prominent" and was very heavy on the Father of Daughter element, so it does meet the only two criteria mentioned.

I cannot believe I am typing all this out but here goes: FKB was about his whole family. There were episodes about everyone. Like The Cosby Show or zillions of other family sitcoms. Louie (from what I remember of it) is all about Louie. His daughters come and go, in his life to stress him out and give him a way to experience human feelings. That's not the same as a family sitcom aside from him having daughters.

"(black and white! new york city! jazz soundtrack!)"

the woody allen fetishism is so weird given the circumstances. takes one to know one, i guess.

So, ILX, you've heard the arguments. Now you get to decide!

Louie. First prominent Father of Daughter television show, or not? We'll take your answers in the order they arrive. Or you can drop us a postcard instead.

i actually stopped watching that seth macfarlane sci-fi show when he cast charlize theron as his love interest in an episode. the whole wish-fulfillment casting thing is so gross. no offense to charlize for taking the part. it just bugged me. he's not even an actor. such a huge vanity/ego thing.

" also im not sure i believe his accounts that yeah it was all cool and consensual" did he say that?

https://i2.wp.com/thecomicscomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/LouisCK_statement_2017_november.jpg?resize=836%2C698

he starts by saying that "At the time, I said to myself that what I did was okay because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is true." i think this implies that he seeked consent (tho his statement doesn't consider the response to his question or what happened afterwards) he says that "It's a predicament for them."

so many ways to be creative and express difficult ideas -- and I Love You Daddy is what he chose
yikes

― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Saturday, November 11, 2017 2:21 PM (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. he is almost acting like an addict. pushing this bad thing more and more, seeing what he can get away with. he has publicly stated none of this was true and it was all rumor. all the while using the money he makes "Telling it like it is" to get that extra high. he talked about this in the pre interviews, how brave he was being for "stepping over the line".

it is for these reasons i say fuck it, cut off the addict. there are plenty of amazing people out there and not enough time in the world to appreciate them all. let's indulge this person no longer.

he can go to charity, he can raise money for some people that genuinely need it. that would be a start. right now he is just blowing it on literal masturbatory fantasies that are harming people.

After reading his statement — which is less an apology than a self-aggrandizing confession — I found myself wondering if that is what drove the desire to get off by humiliating women around him; that tension between knowing he could be the most aware and “woke” guy in the room, and an unquenchable desire within him to satisfy the selfish beast within. It’s a tension that gets played up a lot in his comedy. In 2013’s “Oh My God,” he riffed for several minutes on an “of course… but maybe…” construction, which invited the viewer into both an agreed-upon general principle of how things should be, and then undercut it with a petty frustration that arose out of trying to follow that principle. The most famous example is about kids with peanut allergies: “Of course children who have nut allergies need to be protected…. But, maybe, maybe if touching a nut kills you, you’re supposed to die.”

It’s a hilarious (if controversial) bit, but you can see how it might start muddying the waters quickly. Of course you should recycle, but maybe separating our recyclables is enough of a tedious pain that we can just skip it. Of course we should avoid dropping sexual innuendo in conversation, but maybe comedy is about being honest about whatever weird monster you are on the inside. Of course we aren’t supposed to masturbate on the phone, but maybe if you can get away with it, and it’s fun for you, then it’s justifiable. I always thought C.K. ended up on the side of the “of course.” It turns out he was more than happy to end up on the side of the “but maybe.”

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/louis-ck-scandal-sexual-harassment-mistake-louie-1202612558/

Louie. First prominent Father of Daughter television show, or not? We'll take your answers in the order they arrive. Or you can drop us a postcard instead.
on second thought, i am going with my two dads or the movie three men and a baby/little lady
i only wish i hadn't said anything to begin with so thanks for that

GIDGET

oh right! gidget! i loved that show.

"First prominent Father of Daughter television show, or not?"

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c7/72/d9/c772d957ae05689bc474e6bfc42711a5--elizabeth-montgomery-january-.jpg

Was hoping David Edelstein would review the new movie, and he did:

https://wdef.com/2017/11/12/david-edelstein-on-louis-c-k-s-film-you-probably-wont-see/

wow the Maron podcast is worth listening to

Which ep is it?

Kim Deal

cliff's notes?

he just does a pretty good speech (as these things go, at least from male celebs) about power/sex/etc, including the story of a prof who kissed him without consent when he was in college. he criticizes louie's actions but also says "he's my friend" - and he doesn't criticize louie for lying to him (or to the world) about his past acts.

It seemed like he was partly addressing dum dums in the comedy world who are asking "What's the big deal?"

it's not perfect but it's probably the best thing I've heard or read from a male comedian

though frankly at least part of my reaction was maybe dreading Maron's inevitable take on the thing

It was interesting to hear Maron say he knew about the rumors, had asked Louie about them, and Louie lied to him.

yeah was good to hear him address that, felt like he ended up being overly easy on CK but he seemed to focus more on his own behavior and complicity in the larger comedy scene which I isn't necessarily a bad thing I guess

seemed to get pretty genuinely upset there, towards the end when we was saying LCK is still his friend after everything.

Here's a transcript of the first part:

This is the first part of what @marcmaron had to say on @wtfpod about his friend, Louis C.K. Every word is worth the read: pic.twitter.com/WXyUZIzrg1

— Sopan Deb (@SopanDeb) November 13, 2017

It hasn't happened yet, but I would assume that - kind of like with Harvey W. and Toback - there will be a follow-up article with a new set of women on the record.

in the meantime, let's slide all of our chips over to the marc maron marker. nothing could go wrong over there.

Louis CK. The words you wrote are a shitshow of narcissistic cock soup.

— lena headey (@IAMLenaHeadey) November 11, 2017

Burr's response was predictably idiotic

narcissistic cocks make the best soup

haven't listened to maron in a long time but i listened to his comments and i thought they were pretty on point. bill burr was sloppy & stupid

For what it's worth every woman I've talked to about this has called b.s. on the story from Aspen in 2002. It's not just men saying they could have left. They were adult women who gave him enough time to ask (and supposedly facetiously giving him the thumbs up), take his clothes off, begin masturbating, and finish. That's not an insignificant amount of time. I think they were amused by it. But in light of the other stories of him asking women if he could masturbate in front of them, it became a whole different thing.The story is so vivid—far more vivid than the other allegations, which is why it has been so powerful in bringing him down.

But I just don't see it as traumatizing. He was a no-name comic (or at least not a household name wielding power like everyone has suggested), it was late at night in a hotel room, and they were all doing drugs. I've seen pretty creepy shit in those circumstances, among men and women. Louis might be a creepy, douchey, pervert, but he's not a predator. I save that designation for Weinsten, Spacey, and the dude from Brand New.

you're retarded. he got his dick out while they were still wearing parkas. they weren't like all chilling doing blow getting naked. they were industry colleagues in town for an industry event. as for louis being a noname in 2002? he wrote for conan, had a bunch of tv credits, had just directed a 7 mil film with chris rock in it distributed by paramount, comedy central special, a man with industry connections.

every woman I've talked to about this

So grateful you've been able to ask a number of women about this and can now pass on their views to us.

Stating that women shouldn't feel traumatized because you (presumably a man) don't personally see any reason why they should feel traumatized is a large part of the reason why these these issues exist.

hey Benjamin you don't get to decide what is traumatizing or not in this case.

my definition of "predator" (as opposed to good natured swinger) includes doing shit multiple times and also doing everything in your power to cover it up. this guy nailed both of that, he's a repeat offender and he categorically denied this shit all while making a movie branding himself as this honest self analyzing thinker when in reality it's another piece of cover to keep doing his bullshit.

not surprised assholes think there's nothing wrong w this those, neither did Louis CK. judging by the comments in the stories posted above neither did a lot of other assholes.

fwiw the whole "they were just swinging singles doing drugs and everyone consented" narrative is so bullshit that relies on you placing trust that this guy who lied about this to everyone for a decade yet you act like now what he is saying really is the truth. like are u really that gullible or just bad faithing on an MRA kick?

i take his cue of lying about this to friends and co workers while continuing to do so for a decade as evidence that his best case scenario outlined in his "apology" is probably the honey coated version of a piece of shit. like why would this guy stop lying and manipulating now?

Also, the whole "You clearly admire me, do you mind if I..."

dylannn otm. I haven't followed the comedy world closely in the last 20 years but i knew who LCK ever since his writing gig w/ Conan and Pootie Tang.

Even if he looked serious when he was asking these women to watch him jerk off, there's a good chance you'd think it was leading into a joke. Even if he kept assuring you the question was genuine you might not believe it.

the assumptions you'd have to have, to go there, i can't even

like you're not that cool. no one is that cool. pharrell's not that cool. you think professional colleagues are just waiting for you to bless them?going to melt at the sight of you? be yours? or not even, just indulge you? louis has a bit in one of his standup specials, one of his most shitty bits, about girls in bars who dress a certain way, how they stand there "in order for men to fuck me". and it's like he thinks he's one of these women! that people will just want to fuck him, or watch him, or whatever! no! that literally "works" for no one!

esp with people who push other people's buttons on purpose for larfs, there's also the overwhelming need to seem "cool" -- when someone starts doing something and you're like "is this really happening? did i just show up to xyz place and wind up in abc situation?" the only thing to do in that situation is just sit there, be cool, and hope nothing weird goes down. and then it does!

"they could have gotten up and walked away" pretends that these dynamics don't exist and that's disingenuous

no one is that cool

Absolutely, but I suspect his line of persuasion was not "you're blessed to be witnessing this because I'm so cool," rather more "Ah, gawd, do me a solid here, it'll just take a minute. I just can't help it and I know it's disgusting but it's the bad hand I've been dealt by merciless fate (shrug). What can I do?"

In various bits he presents himself very much as a disgusted prisoner of his urges, and wishes he could be rid of them. It's awful, he tells us, and he hates it, and he's sick of it. Women are tourists in the land of perversions; he's a POW: "You're Jane Fonda sitting on the tank; I'm John McCain in the hut."

The self-loathing excuse-making posture does _not_ make it better, n.b.

no appeal to pity is going to save this dude

He'll be back. He'll have to keep his head down for a while, get back into people's good graces via Pamela Adlon or some other woman (like Mel Gibson tried to do through Jodie Foster). It might take him a while - it took Mel Gibson ten years - but he'll talk his way out of it eventually.