Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/11/09/a_sex_therapist_on_why_some_men_force_women_to_watch_them_masturbate.html

he didn't use dating sites/consult a professional because as we noted earlier -- the uncomfortable feelings his actions produced are part of the thrill
you don't get that in a simulation

No I get that; that comment was meant to build upon what you were saying, not negate it.

xp - as long as people keep playing music in bars, not always but frequently :)

Why would a man choose to masturbate in front of a woman instead of physically assaulting her?

Well, a more violent act would make him a rapist. He might not want to think of himself that way, or be seen that way. If he just masturbates, he can tell himself that he’s not strong-arming anybody.

Yeah, I was saying yesterday to someone that maybe this was part of it too. Well, I didn't touch anyone etc.

aka the lamest excuse known to man
cool escape route from predator mountain

I've been thinking about how this finally getting confirmed/seeing the light of day impacts how I view his work. It doesn't really change my opinion re: the quality of his previous work, but his show(s) and standup were already loaded with so many unpleasant images of him and his sexuality it seems like going back and watching any of them now would not be a funny or enjoyable experience. I'm going to have a hard time laughing at any of his jokes (esp any about gender or sexuality or power dynamics) because all I'm just going to immediately picture him dropping his pants and whipping it out. With some awful people's work their personal failings are fairly divorced from their work, making it easier to separate the art from the artist - but with others (Wagner, R. Kelly etc.) that separation becomes really difficult if not impossible and then it's just like "welp, you and your work are now ruined, good job."

I was bullied at work for some time a year ago and I am still recovering from it, I cannot imagine the intense pain from trusting someone who then suddenly decides to sexually assault me in this pathetic way. Why do people do these things why why why.

I could imagine still "enjoying" Horace and Pete since it's the most separate from his usual persona and pet interests, but it was so unrelentingly bleak I can't imagine watching it again.

it definitely makes all the "Louis gets laid by another random woman" episodes of "Louie" (to say nothing of the actual sexual assault episode) just fucking gross. tbh this was a recurring story crutch that always bothered me about the show but now even moreso.

but really if you think about it he was telling people EXACTLY who he was with his stand-up and show! there was a lot of transparency. i'm a gross piece of shit ugh. but like what that slate interview says, when it comes to compulsions the feeling of self-loathing and guilt is a part of the compulsion! which is why i wonder if this isn't something that he is enjoying on some level. which is really fucked up!

yes to all that. but I would add that the show also forgave/validated him a lot of the time. Like yes there was the self-loathing, but then he got to be star of the show being a cute dad and getting laid all the time and telling funny joeks and generally depicting himself as trying to do the right thing (or what he thought was the right thing)

which is why i wonder if this isn't something that he is enjoying on some level. which is really fucked up!

― scott seward, Friday, November 10, 2017 5:00 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Well, why do you think people have pity parties?

Just want to point out that CK is full of shit in that “apology”—according to the Times story, he did not ask all of these women. And of course the ones he did ask were still being coerced. Do you really have to be a cartoon villain like Weinstein to be held accountable for your actions.

I’ve been reading so much online writing about sexual assault and abuse of power that I can’t remember where I read this, but a woman pointed out that a woman’s first instinct when a man does what CK did is to try to save him embarrassment. As self-defeating and risky as that is, I have found it to be true in my own life, and I am grateful to that woman for naming it. The whole game is set up to protect the abuser, and we’re indoctrinated too.

Also, CK revealed a lot of himself in Louie: all his stuff about how men are disgusting and their desire for women necessarily degrades them...maybe the way you do it, motherfucker

What scott just said, I meant

I could actually almost believe he didn’t understand the impact his abuse had on these women

Bc to him it was one incident

But for women it’s one incident in a looooong-ass chain of “incidents” we’ve experienced

It’s also precisely that CK did not ask women he knew well, in the context of a relationship, if he could masturbate in front of them. It’s clear from the reporting that part of why he was compelled to do it was the degree to which it mimicked that moment on the train when some rando whips it out and starts going at it in your presence. am I right, ladies?

I think he completely understood it. He also dismissed these women as liars mere months ago.

Please Louis C whatever , just join Bono on some island and never bother us again

I wonder if I will ever stop feeling this overpowering rage.

imo it doesn't matter if he understood or not, what his thought processes were, the literal "why" he did it. it's all bullshit excuses. his intent is irrelevant.

just think of how many years he's been on the road. god only knows how many people he's done that too. the sordid life of the traveling salesman.

There’s been a sense the past few years that he is just making as much of the best work that he can while he has the time. He clearly wants to grapple with everything he himself grapples with in his work - and make dialogue that gets him to look at himself from outside (from Dane Cook’s POV and so on). And, kind of like Woody Allen diving into Manhattan Murder Mystery when the shit was really hitting the fan, getting immersed in the work. Which excuses nothing, of course, and now doesn’t help when a movie gets pulled from release and HBO removes all the past comedy specials.

But with Louie, whether I’m projecting or not, the sense I had was - hey, the jig could be up anytime, this past shit could bring it all to an end - so go for it as far as making the best work the best way, quickly.

When the new movie was announced, I did wonder what the odds were of it even getting released, figuring his kind of story could come out before it hit theaters.

Armisen is due for a thread bump at some point, similarly.

I haven’t read the whole thread, but the times article mentioned he got the details wrong with one of the women he apologized to, suggesting there’s at least one woman out there he pushed into a bathroom before he did whatever else he did.

It’s the cultivation of a feminist persona and publicly supporting women comics that makes me want to destroy him with my banshee screams. And the fucking disgusting coercion.

yeah, self-righteous CK was definitely a BIG talk show persona of his.

I'm assuming he felt guilty and that shit was done to assuage himself.

Yeah he would talk about striking while the iron is hot and I took it as sort of a humble 'not taking success for granted, popularity is fleeting' thing but I wonder if he had the sense that this would all come back on him at some point.

Doesn’t sound like I love you, daddy was the best work he could make...

(Has there ever been a creepier movie title?)

I'm assuming he felt guilty and that shit was done to assuage himself.

Shades of Weinstein “now I’m going to take on the guns” misdirection rhetoric

"I'd like to apologise to all these women who looked up to me and admired me, that I didn't take the opportunity to mentor and shape them through my excellence. I have tarnished my own brilliance, which they all acknowledge, through this failure."

what a great apology from the guy who said everything was made up until today when he uncovered secret information & learned he was lying

— DVS (@DVSblast) November 10, 2017

I think it's worth noting that the latest story about Louis dates from 2005. When he called and said he was sorry to one of the women in 2009 he said he did bad things before. I think he realized how fucked up he was and tried to be better. But to me it doesn't seem as if he tried to make up for it to the women he hurt, tried to help them in any way. It feels as if he tried to make up to himself for being a bad person. It began smacking of self-absorbtion.

I mean, to what Eazy writes, yeah, it kinda feels as if he always knew it could end, that his past could come back to haunt him, but he had another choice than just making as much art as he could, being as critical of himself as he had time to. He could have tried and gotten this story told, in what ever way his victims wanted to, taken the hit, and then worked with whatever platform was left to him. Which would probably have been larger than what he has now.

His constant desire to be the good guy, at this point, his sickening and the apology makes it worst. I'm 100% interpreting here but part of me believes he issued that apology to not be included with the Cosby and Weinstein and Gomeshi.

his statement strikes me as him thinking of this as a very pathetic and sad problem for himself, something that's extremely embarrassing and holy wow i didn't mean to inadvertently hurt people along the way. "ahh if i only used my considerable celebrity for good! argh these cursed hands of mine."

i keep thinking of those women (if they did admire him as much as he says) being so happy to be talking to him, the great yet humble comedian, so happy he was interested in them and their work, and then the crushing moment (which so many of us recognise) when they were relegated from subject to object, the humiliation of wondering why they had ever thought they might be of intellectual interest to him, or amusing, or seen as an equal, not just something to be jizzed at. his abject pathos instead of weinstein-ish aggression does not address or compensate for that diminishment.

Yes.

<3 estela

YES.

yes and also all of the "they didn't say no" or "they gave mixed signals" BS, i mean i cannot put myself in that position exactly but going from total admiration to complete disgust isn't exactly a split second thing. i can see the mystified reactions and discomfort and yes, what you said horseshoe, feeling embarrassment for *him* and trying to save him, trying to laugh it off, probably it happening before it can be entirely processed. i mean also the thing with him being a comedian, him asking them to watch, well it must be a joke right? he'd never actually--oh nm.

https://nyti.ms/2htVegZ

http://www.vulture.com/2017/11/tear-down-the-boys-club-that-protected-louis-ck.html

and then the crushing moment (which so many of us recognise) when they were relegated from subject to object, the humiliation of wondering why they had ever thought they might be of intellectual interest to him, or amusing, or seen as an equal,

i've been thinking stuff like this a lot lately. it's crushing. i don't want to talk to any people, really. i'm not even reading the apology because i've run out of care, but i love estela.

haha didn't even notice i copied her word, crushing

Don’t read the apology; it will make you want to puke.

yeah these statements are always so repulsive and obviously disingenuous and at their worst abusive. i mean, "i choose to live now as a gay man" has become the new "my dog ate my homework," you know?

really? as of yet only one person has employed it

still amazed by "i also took advantage of the fact that i was widely admired"

xp i mean as a punchline, a lame excuse, perhaps this joke is exclusive to twitter

still amazed by "i also took advantage of the fact that i was widely admired"

wait Louis said this? in his apology statement?? maybe i should read it... sounds insane

well isn't that the crux of it?

idk haven't read it

Matt Zoller Seitz saw I Love You, Daddy two weeks ago and compared it to a flasher in a raincoat. I think he nailed it:

If there's one thing we know for sure about people who are accused of indecent exposure, it's that the thrill of getting away with it is the true source of their pleasure. This is the movie version of a pervert in a raincoat flashing you, deftly enough that you aren't sure you saw what you saw. In retrospect, much of "Louie" now plays like a dry run for what he'd do on the big screen with "I Love You, Daddy," which leaves the raincoat open while its owner makes eye contact and dares you to deny what's happening. My notes consist of a single sentence: "It's like he's rubbing it in our faces."

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/i-love-you-daddy-2017