Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

co-sign "is this really the hill you wanna die on Mordy"

nah not really i'm making good on what i said and leaving the thread. peace out.

that's a better statement than anyone else has given out so far. he needs to go away for a while now.

I get what Mordy is saying, but

1) abuse of power is not exactly illegal, particularly if she says no

2) these are only the ones we have specific details of. The illegal ones are most likely not much in the public domain yet.

Yeah of course he was going to write the right words in a statement. The only glaringly disingenuous part is "I learned yesterday the extent to which..."

"that's a better statement than anyone else has given out so far."

to be fair, he is a top-notch professional when it comes to feeling guilty about his actions. he has built a career around it. that could actually be dialogue from one of his shows.

it's cool to disagree w/Mordy and point out how/why he's wrong here, but feel like that quickly devolves into "mordy you are human garbage" quickly and predictably in ilxville

his apology elides his circle of enablers and him threatening people's livelihoods if they make a stink about his gross actions. shit apology by a shit man.

jesus now i'm afraid he's going to turn this into money with a big apology tour and that feeling bad about it in public actually turns him on.

yeah the 'i learned yesterday' part is utter horseshit

i like IO a lot, though she doesn't need validating from the likes of me.

but if she steams you enough to call her a shitty person on a thread in response to her talking about the way women react to unwanted sexual advances i mean that's your problem and you might want to consider why you said that line at that moment.

3) if there are no actual assaults or rapes in Weinsteins cases, it comes down to how much respect and goodwill he has in his pouch. None. Forget it. He's toast.

it's cool to disagree w/Mordy and point out how/why he's wrong here, but feel like that quickly devolves into "mordy you are human garbage" quickly and predictably in ilxville

― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, November 10, 2017 12:40 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dude, literally no one said or implied this afaict. I have no general problem with Mordy and I strongly disagree with much of what he's posted itt this morning.

I was going to say something about all of this but I think the conversation has run away from me and the window has closed.

Anyway. I think his behavior was shitty, the admission is about as good as one could reasonably expect it to be, and I really, really hope going forward that we as a society spend some time figuring out how to resocialize so that abuse isn't rewarded.

i shouldn't have insulted io no matter how i feel and i apologize. i was already steaming over another interaction we had recently that i bit my tongue over and i felt her big caps and "you're talking over woman!" accusations here were bad faith but really i should never make things personal no matter what. i'm sorry for making it personal, io.

yeah the 'i learned yesterday' part is utter horseshit

― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Friday, November 10, 2017 1:41 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

...the extent. He learned yesterday the extent of the impact. Doesn't seem like utter horseshit to say that imo?

Tbh I was mostly motivated by the fact that both ENBB and La Lechera had already spoken on the exact point of debate and were being ignored, over-explained to, or having someone else post exactly what they just said w/o acknowledgement.

I get what you're saying but he's a smart guy, he's done a lot of thinking about this topic for his comedy, you'd think he'd be able to draw some conclusions.

xp

it's cool to disagree w/Mordy and point out how/why he's wrong here, but feel like that quickly devolves into "mordy you are human garbage" quickly and predictably in ilxville

Pretty sure Mordy was giving as good as he got there.

yeah and that's part of the downward spiral this shit gravitates towards

Wow, there’s a lot of self-righteous stupid shit on this thread now. I couldn’t possibly be less interested in becoming Captain Save-a-Louie but the difference between Weinstein and LCK isn’t a hair worth splitting? Considering the editorial ethos of media companies that had to change their name because of a lawsuit is useless? I assume you’re all voting yes on the jerking off in front of ladies poll.

io i don't think i ignored anyone's argument. if someone else repeated what they just said w/out attribution then maybe yell at those ppl for being dicks? my not agreeing w/ you does not mean that i didn't read what you said.

I'm sure he has, too. Though he admits how his position has clouded his ability to draw those conclusions adequately, so I felt it was appropriate for him to realize the extent of the damage is even worse.

xpost to Jordan

mordy is I'm sure right that there's a good amount of people who don't feel comfortable voicing particular viewpoints because they'll get attacked. idk is that the kind of messageboard you want to have? maybe it is. i really don't care, but it's def an ilx "thing" forever and always.

In terms of evaluating the truth of the situation, I think it is important to note that the man did not in any way try to establish a loving, trusting or equal relationship with the woman as a framework within which to make his request for sexual gratification. Lacking such a framework, the very question becomes an assault, and the fact that the women 'consented' is prima facie evidence that they felt coerced. Honoring such a 'consent' is no more legitimate than honoring a coerced confession.

Mordy is posting like D-40 itt, but instead of about Chief Keef it's about sexual assault

thx whiney good post

at least there's one in here

my my, Gore Vidal was right about the four most beautiful words in our common language

I’m thinking about this in terms of addictive behavior and where we as a society think the lines should be between outpatient treatment, inpatient treatment and incarceration. The amount of exposition and introspection LCK has done about his sexuality issues and his long-ago substance disorder suggests to me a struggle with illness and self-control leading to criminal disgustingness, not a sociopath like Weinstein or Spacey. But this is all “I mean, just look at him” judgement full of anecdote, bias and my own personal trash.


BTW If you’re a dude on this thread you should get a pop-up every time you post asking “are you A, talking over the women; or B, yelling at a guy for talking over the women so you can impress the women?”
Regardless of the answer you should then get a screen that tells you “wow i bet that feels awesome” and then it deletes a random number of words from your post

just read the CK response and having a tough time absorbing the whole "What i learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn't a question." yeah sounds like you didn't fucking learn this at all

https://pitchfork.com/news/louis-ck-responds-to-sexual-misconduct-allegations-these-stories-are-true/?mbid=social_facebook

why not?

xp

Best New Response

xp

tbh by and large I don't keep track of individual posters' genders

(referring of course to folks who post pseudonymously)

Determining whether you're doing it because you like the power you have that allows you to get away with it vs. having no control of your impulses due to the fact that you can get away with it isn't important to anyone but you and your therapist.

I do apologize if it seemed like I was talking over anyone itt. I probably do that a lot in general on ILX as I'm almost always 'working' while I'm posting, which is not the optimal situation for focused conversation.

in a number of anecdotes given he invited the participant (and they acquested), or at the very least they gave off unclear signals (giggling instead of saying no when he asked them).

the thing is this is easy and there's really no grey area. jacking off in front of other people is not really my thing but with anything you want from a partner who's not your regular partner -- how do you not check, like, multiple times? "I wanna do this thing, are you ok with this? Are you sure? If you wanna say 'I'd rather not' please say that, I'd feel like an asshole if you're not 100% on-board." Like, this is not difficult and there aren't any good arguments against just taking a check-the-label-three-times-before-dispensing approach

Claims that consent is hard are, in my view, disingenuous at best. Consent is easy. It is not mood-killing or any other posited bad thing to overdo it on getting consent. As a lot of sex-ed people are fond of pointing out, the chances that it makes the encounter even better for both participants are very high. If you're comfortable jacking off in front of somebody then you can't really claim you didn't feel comfortable enough to get affirmative, enthusiastic consent.

it's really incredibly clear and the only signal that means "go ahead" is an affirmative, enthusiastic "yes." all other signals mean "don't do this."

"I wanna do this thing, are you ok with this? Are you sure? If you wanna say 'I'd rather not' please say that, I'd feel like an asshole if you're not 100% on-board."

well i for one am seduced

mordy is I'm sure right that there's a good amount of people who don't feel comfortable voicing particular viewpoints because they'll get attacked. idk is that the kind of messageboard you want to have? maybe it is. i really don't care, but it's def an ilx "thing" forever and always.

It's an "every forum on the internet I've ever been to" thing and tbh ILX is way more lenient than most.

JCLC otm, I don't find the consent boundaries difficult to understand (full disclosure I am not a rich powerful comedian)

"the thing is this is easy and there's really no grey area. jacking off in front of other people is not really my thing but with anything you want from a partner who's not your regular partner -- how do you not check, like, multiple times? "I wanna do this thing, are you ok with this? Are you sure? If you wanna say 'I'd rather not' please say that, I'd feel like an asshole if you're not 100% on-board." Like, this is not difficult and there aren't any good arguments against just taking a check-the-label-three-times-before-dispensing approach"

Because he just needed the flimsy excuse to tell himself it was fine. Just like how one might justify to themselves that is OK to have another drink or something. Not coming from a rational place.

Not a defense - just speculating.

So correct me if I'm wrong but weren't some of the women involved in this working for LCK at the time he asked them to watch him jack off? Because that blows a lot of normal consent stuff out of the water; there is ALWAYS an element of coercion in asking a office subordinate to do stuff outside of their job description (like picking up your drycleaning and walking your dog for non-PA positions), let alone gaining any level of familiarity with your genitalia.

iirc some were working for him, others were just people from the broader industry. either way there's a clear power differential at work.

yeah just being lower on the entertainment ladder makes you a professional subordinate of sorts

I get that being in an industry tends to limit your ability to meet other people outside of that industry but OTOH there are about a billion dating sites where you can put up a profile that says "I would like to jack off in front of you; interested?" and then sift through the replies to find the ones you're actually interested in and, before those, there were personal ads.

we aren't talking two random adults that don't work together consenting to get crazy, this all took place in the professional realm, among colleagues, often while on the job. that is just not fucking cool.

like if you wouldn't just ask a co worker to go grocery shopping for you then why tf would you ask them to do this?