Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

So, that Louis CK film has been iced for reasons other than LCK's behavior, is what it looks like.

― Mark G, Thursday, November 9, 2017 6:31 PM (forty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

has it though

feel free to say what those reasons are... any time now

this is really fd up to do to someone. this is fd up behavior to do to a co worker. what the f is wrong with this person? this is not respectful behavior.

https://i.imgur.com/PLkvJ70l.jpg

There is one bit of one of his stand up that I don't remember 100% well and where he talks about he is always thinking about sex and see a librarian and immediately thinks of nasty sex stuff. At a dinner a week later, half of my friends where like 'oh yeah i'm totally like that' and how it seemed like every male person I knew was a psychotic sex addict maniac.

In that same bit he talks about how women wouldn't understand or empathize [with men's depraved sexual fantasies] which is so not otm

With all this stuff I'm honestly starting to think men are all just driven around by their dicks and cant control it. Wanking like monkeys. It is depressing as fuck.

a) to a surprising extent, yes. maybe not that surprising
b) no

A lot of it comes down to making a conscious effort to be something other than a slavering, id-driven maniac. Becoming a properly socialized person takes some work and honest reflection, and some people aren't going to see the value in doing the work until and unless not doing the work impacts them adversely.

good post Lunch

A lot of it comes down to making a conscious effort to be something other than a slavering, id-driven maniac. Becoming a properly socialized person takes some work and honest reflection, and some people aren't going to see the value in doing the work until and unless /not/ doing the work impacts them adversely.

I think not sexually assaulting people comes rather easy to most of us. There has probably been effort and reflection involved, however, in fine-tuning my speech and rhetoric so that no one is unintentionally offended or made to feel uncomfortable

I think not sexually assaulting people comes rather easy to most of us.

Yep. The idea that this is just "how men are" has to be resisted. It is not how men are. It is not how men act whenever they can get away with it. It is how men act and are when something is badly wrong with them.

A lot of it comes down to making a conscious effort to be something other than a slavering, id-driven maniac.

It seems obvious now that Louis CK legitimized being a slavering id-driven maniac throughout his series and stand ups.

Individuals and the people who raise them need to stop pretending that e.g. empathy, respect for the autonomy and personhood of others, etc. are things that will just work themselves out. People who came before us put a lot of thought and work into figuring out what this whole 'civilization' thing should entail, and we can't ride on their coattails and pretend that everyone just naturally gets it. Because clearly not everyone naturally gets it.

It seems obvious now that Louis CK legitimized being a slavering id-driven maniac throughout his series and stand ups.

― Van Horn Street, Thursday, November 9, 2017 10:06 PM (thirty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Did it? I felt like he spoke a more ambitious game than he lived

feel like the common literary/movie trope of "girl rejects boy but eventually succumbs to his nonstop harassment" has done more harm than good

maniac dick-see dream boy

Isn't his standup more about the clash between his Id and his superego, and how exhausting the constant battle is?
Which makes it more disappointing that he (allegedly?) behaves like this in real life.

xp - oh wow, i don't need to feel like that -- i know that

think about that creepy douche with the poster board and how many people must have tried that shit
barf

Yep. The idea that this is just "how men are" has to be resisted. It is not how men are. It is not how men act whenever they can get away with it. It is how men act and are when something is badly wrong with them.

chemical castration ftw

maniac dick-see dream boy

the guiltiest of lols, well-played whiney

Being a comedian seems like a constant pushing against the bounds of what's acceptable to think, to say, etc., so it doesn't entirely surprise me that someone could get their signals crossed and confuse real sex with performance and what's hilarious and subversive vs. just gross and inappropriate, what's self-abuse vs. harassment, etc. Not at all defending LCK's actions, BTW, I just think his situation is different from Weinstein, which sounds more plainly like rape.

there is a howard stern interview on youtube where he talks about his misadventures with prostitutes that is pretty sad. i mean i guess he's going for his patented honest/sad/hilarious thing but it just seems sad.

xpost
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AGQLRKywRqg/hqdefault.jpg

i guess one thing is that just because you talk in a self-flagellating manner laced w/jokes about how much of a dick you are, that doesn't make you a better person. it doesn't give you permission to continue to be a dick for the art.

He's got a very gross fetish and the ability to get away with it (until now).

He can enjoy whatever gross fetish floats his boat imo as long as a key part of that fetish isn't 'lack of consent from the other parties involved'.

isn't that always a key part with these types of guys

Yeah, of course. The actual fetish isn't the more obvious fetish but rather 'abusing your status by engaging in a vulgar display of power over another'.

And by 'fetish' I mean, y'know, 'sex crime'.

the discomfort in the victims is probably what floats his boat, so getting consent is probably not part of the plan

I'm only saying that it's probably not worth overthinking. His status gave him the power to get away with it for awhile, which is a major problem when mixed with his impulsiveness.

In response to dinnerboat's analysis and similar ones.

this could be something he's been doing since he was a kid though. its the kind of thing that starts young. showing people your penis. and some people just don't get over it. and it escalates. comedians tend to be pretty obsessive/compulsive creatures. who travel the country alone at night....

the discomfort in the victims is probably what floats his boat, so getting consent is probably not part of the plan

― President Keyes, Friday, November 10, 2017 12:17 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I've been thinking about this a lot because between him and Weinstein just whipping it out is apparently a thing I didn't realize people got off on and I was trying to figure out why it could possibly be a turn on. This is the only thing I came up with. :/

and that is what makes it an act of aggression regardless of how dysfunctional he is or how he exploits his dysfunction for larfs

Yes.

i'm sure some ppl will find this theorizing distasteful but i think weinstein + ck masturbating in front of other ppl might have different psychological reasons? weinstein seems more psychopathic and because of his variety of behavior (exposure only being one) the masturbation suggests more of a hedonistic kind of impulsivity? where as w/ louis since afaik this is the only kind of thing we've heard along these lines, and just by the way it was described by the women involved, i think it's maybe more of a shame related thing? he seems like a compulsive masturbator and [maybe bc of his catholic background?] it seems to be closely associated with shame for him. i wonder if that's why he wanted unwilling/uncomfortable participants to watch - bc that helped him project his more metaphysical shame into a more concrete experience.

there was a kid in my 4th grade class who would point to the erection in his pants and smile. he wanted people to know that he had an erection. we weren't really that impressed. but that's the kind of thing that leads to...other stuff later. or can lead to other stuff. it's weird. compulsions are weird though.

men showing women and girls their penis out on the street is really common. sadly. like, no contact. just: here you go. here it is.

even when it comes to just conversation i think any man who is w/o asking very outward w/their self-satisfied sexual transgressiveness should be looked at askance...

idk to me regardless of their reasons for doing it, the methods for getting off involved intimidation
and that puts them in the same bucket whether anyone likes it or not
shame or hedonism don't matter when some guy is forcing you to watch him masturbate, whether it's harvey weinstein, louis ck, or some random stranger on the bus
it's all the same

weinstein vs. ck's behavior is really not a hair worth splitting

my mom told me a story once about a guy pulling down his pants in front of her in a park when she was a little kid and it still disturbed her 50+ years later. it's so jarring.

I had *no* idea either that this was a real, widespread "thing" either. In both Weinstein and CK's cases it seems tied into power - because they (think they) can, they are powerful up to the point where they might feel untouchable - paired with obvious sexual/mental issues. Toxic combination it seems. The complete disregard for women's integrity and it all being about "them", essentially, not even seeing the woman a human being but a means, is what really baffles me.

i know ppl will hate me pointing this out but louis's crimes against consent are not as clear-cut as harvey's either. in a number of anecdotes given he invited the participant (and they acquested), or at the very least they gave off unclear signals (giggling instead of saying no when he asked them). in all of those situations there were power discrepancies but like the woman he invited to his office to watch his masturbate who came - this isn't the same kind of predatory behavior that we're talking about with harvey. i think louis is obv gross, and obv somewhat predatory but it's far more ambiguous imo than ppl have been suggesting. ready to be pilloried.

like ppl talking about situations of implied or literal consent as being predatory bc he held a position of power. idk. this is just not the same thing as rape/attempted rape.

Acquiesced*

OH at a Studio City coffee shop. Two 20-something women talking. ‘Why do they all want us to watch them masturbate?’ ‘You’d think they’d want to watch *us* masturbate.’ ‘God, they’re so gross.’ ‘Anyway what’s our call time?’

— Rebecca Keegan (@ThatRebecca) November 9, 2017

my mom told me a "me too" story that involved her finishing some of her artwork at a studio and climbing a ladder to get something, and the artist whose studio it was reaching up and feeling under her shirt. she FROZE and he laughed and she quietly finished her work and then never went there again. she dealt w/sexual harassment at another job as well. lots of crude remarks and smug asshole dude shit. she worked in finance and investment. cliched but true.

I don't hate you for pointing out how CK's case isn't Weinstein's, but I don't think anyone on here really is conflating the two. So why would you feel the need to, quite frankly, nitpick?

xp his position of power goes without saying and has a major role in this. It leads to feeling you can get away with anything.