Is the West Experiencing a Left-Wing Drift? (the international left politics activism, news, and strategy thread)

in the panel kingfish posted in the chapo thread Chibber argues that fascism only succeeds when there isn't a viable leftist alternative and that the right-wing drift in the West was a temporary phenomenon that is now receding as options like corbyn/sanders become more viable. i'm not so sure how that comports w/ his theory of ww2 (where he argues precisely the opposite - that the strength of the left is what led capital to throw its lot in with fascism) - these two ideas seem to be in tension. maybe he's just pushing for a middle ground - a left powerful enough to be a viable alternative to fascism for the downtrodden, and he's not too worried about labor challenging capital anytime soon since we're a long way off from another dictatorship of the proletariat.

On the front of "capital throwing its weight around" in the face of a strengthened left, I was heartened to see talk of Labour preparing to counteract capital flight should they ever take power

- wtf is happening with the Canadian left

Would appreciate any kind of discussion on this, even pointers to good news/commentary sources.

idk how accurate this is but I don't think this is so much a left-wing "drift" as much as it is 18-35 year olds in this country realizing what happens when they don't vote

slash realizing they have no viable economic future under the current order

https://elizabethirreverent.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/slash_by_bigjet.jpg

this moral foundations stuff that is deployed like a trump card in that damon linker article (& elsewhere) could do with some more discussion

CR definitely took notice of the review and will probably provide a rebuttal of some kind, I feel a bit out of my depth as I haven't read The Reactionary Mind

hate reading a whole book so i can pull it apart is where i draw the line

wrt haidt i mean

there's a pun in there somewhere

re: the Cdn left, my current summary would be "we're all watching to see what Jagmeet inevitably waffles on" and that our general terminal smugness is our biggest impediment. I haven't even noticed the Trudeau Paradise Papers stuff get much traction.

fwiw that article above is essentially my complaint about CR's book. it smooths out an awful lot of [to my mind] legitimate concerns of conservatism in order to make a moral argument. and esp a moral argument that is easily made in practically any situation - there is no ideology where you cannot find losers of the ideology being oppressed. iow there's no exclusively liberatory ideology cf the great Leftist States of the 20th century.

i just realized tho why are we talking about conservatism itt?

but the degree of inequality does vary. the fact that something can't be completely eliminated is no argument against reducing it

what i meant is that one could v easily make the argument that the left is about oppression and inequality and you can see bc every time there's a communist state they end up killing millions of ppl through the rigid enforcement of dogma. the question is always who is oppressing whom. now rightly you could argue that soviet + chinese communism should not be how we measure the motivations underlining leftism but then you can do the same for conservatism. my point is just that if you're looking to defame your political opponents on oppression grounds you'll have plenty of fodder no matter your ideology.

ha, i think real world examples are salient, but for what they tell you about power rather than what they tell you about ideology

I haven't even noticed the Trudeau Paradise Papers stuff get much traction.

Do you mean the stuff about Bronfman's offshore accounts? Was JT or the LPC directly implicated?

I imagine Canada will probably remain a country of milquetoast centrist liberalism for a while. We never drifted as far right as some of our allies and will probably not experience as intense of a left-wing backlash?

That said, there have been some legitimately good ideas coming from the NDP, especially Ashton (and the Greens). I'm eager to see more advocacy for things like a green energy transition Crown corporation, socialized finance options, socialized pharma care coverage, someone actually standing against more pipelines. In a minority govt situation, this Liberal govt might be more push-able than the last one.

An NDP provincial government may well be likely in SK, I think?

challops: soviet + chinese communism is actually right-wing

That said, there have been some legitimately good ideas coming from the NDP, especially Ashton (and the Greens).

I (along with all the Marxist goons I roll w/) voted for Ashton even though she was disappointing on QC, hoping she remains a prominent voice for the party going forward. I really got the feeling she pushed the overall tenor of the leadership race significantly left.

Everything is an angry centrist overreaction to the last shit

Maybe this belongs more on the CDN politics thread, but curious to hear what other leftists/Canadians on this thread think.

I voted for Ashton and am definitely far to the left of Jagmeet, but from a tactical POV, do you think he may be - in an instrumental way - better for the medium to longer term prospects of the party insofar as he will likely be able to win over some of the more left(ish) or progressive people who voted for Trudeau in 2015 (and either moved more to the left since or have been disillusioned by the betrayal of campaign promises, etc.).

I know this way of thinking can lead to a slippery slope, but I wonder if his leadership of the party might help - to some degree - galvanize (or at least sustain some forward momentum for) the NDP in a way that an Ashton, Angus or Caron victory may have?

I voted for Ashton but I don't think her platform would have been electorally successful, if I'm honest. But I am of the pessimistic view that liberal centrism is the best we can expect from a federal government in Canada and so the federal NDP can best function as a sort of parliamentary pressure group.

Two huge problems for left politics in Canada: the national dependence on oil leads to a situation in which a large proportion of the public view the oil patch as a sacred cow which precludes widespread popularity for environmentalism which must be a pillar for any left-wing movement; another important part of any left movement in canada must be indigenous rights, decolonization, reconciliation. these ideas are given plenty of lip service in mainstream canadian discourse but anything that actually threatens entrenched interests or even, you know, calls a spade a spade - wrt the opprobrium that comes from many corners the second someone uses the words "settler colonialism" or "genocide" etc. - is anathema to a large proportion of the canadian population.

I voted for Ashton and am definitely far to the left of Jagmeet, but from a tactical POV, do you think he may be - in an instrumental way - better for the medium to longer term prospects of the party insofar as he will likely be able to win over some of the more left(ish) or progressive people who voted for Trudeau in 2015 (and either moved more to the left since or have been disillusioned by the betrayal of campaign promises, etc.).

my concern is that his platform may not wind up distinct enough from the Libs for a significant number of voters to even consider jumping ship

and JiV otm, Canada is much more backwards than the US on these issues in some respects

On oil, possibly. I don't agree that the US is more progressive on aboriginal issues. Afaict, these barely even register as an issue on the national level in the US.

Simon, that's totally a fair point, though I also wonder if Singh will be able to bring some amount of first-time voters to the NDP (I doubt it will be massive, but stil...) or people who had formerly been unaffiliated with any party. He may also be appealing to culturally conservative immigrant groups who vote PC (to generalize) and win over more votes.

Jim, yes, both are also two massive problems that any progressive force will have to reckon with and, in the near future, am not sure how they will be able to reconcile.

Young/new voters are definitely where I'd be focusing on trying to mobilize if I were an NDP strategist, yeah.

I know Habermas has been progressively lurching to the centre over the course of his life, but even I'm quite surprised he wrote this glowing article on Macron.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/juergen-habermas-on-the-european-vision-of-emmanuel-macron-a-1174721.html

Fun with (American) history:

https://soundcloud.com/deadpundits/ep-34-the-democratic-party-the-left-w-adam-hilton

Dead Pundits Society - Ep. 34: The Democratic Party & the Left w/ Adam Hilton

Adam Hilton, visiting lecturer in Politics at Mount Holyoke College, is on the show to talk about the history of the Democratic Party and its interaction with the left. Can the Democratic Party be used as an instrument of socialist advance? And what is the nature of the Democratic Party, anyway? Tune in to find out.

Find some of Adam's writings here:
-"Bernie and the Search for New Politics," https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/06/bernie-president-unions-mcgovern
-"Searching for New Politics," https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/02/bernie-sanders-new-politics-democratic-party-realignment-primary

I know Habermas has been progressively lurching to the centre over the course of his life, but even I'm quite surprised he wrote this glowing article on Macron.

He seems to be using Macron as a stick to beat the German political establishment with. They need beating, but get a better stick.

thanks for that kingfish, SPD is a reliably good cast even if I find the main guy mysteriously grating

Proctor likes to stir shit for better or for worse but I enjoy his guests most of the time

One of the socialist candidates I can vote for in municipal elections later this month is named Charisma Fries. I might vote for her just for that reason. I will probably just vote for the party, though.

Sounds like the name of one of the bands on scott's Leftover College Radio Station Indie Rock Records thread

Latin America seen as part of the West? I think that's where the latest drift began. Different forms of a populist left to varying degrees in Venezuela, Bolivia, Brazil and so on. Its under tension - and in Brazil its collapsed to quite a dangerous situation for the environment..

On the front of "capital throwing its weight around" in the face of a strengthened left, I was heartened to see talk of Labour preparing to counteract capital flight should they ever take power

― Simon H., Thursday, 9 November 2017 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Due to Brexit capital flight could happen anyway. Business is practically telling Labour they could put up with a erm diminished influence and profits as long as Brexit is the softer option (access to the single market). That's an opening, of sorts, to bring more things to the forefront and keep those ppl on their toes.

skip to about 13:30 in the latest Trillbilly Workers' Party for a very good RL Stephens segment on DSA/American left stuff, particularly the old race/class question

https://soundcloud.com/user-972848621-463073718/episode-35-who-are-we-w-special-guest-rl-stephens

or 18:30ish if you're feeling impatient

this is all pretty dope imho

Good thread of what DSA has been up to this week. https://t.co/0mv1eo63k0

— Sturgeon's Law (@Sturgeons_Law) November 13, 2017

Interview with Lee Carter and David Duhalde from DSA

Gunna start putting good pod eps in here to keep the other thread mainly focused on its titular show

Great interview with Prof. Federico Finchelstein

KPFA - Against the Grain - Populism or Fascism?

Is Donald Trump a fascist?  A rightwing populist?  What about Marine Le Pen of the far right National Front, who received the support of a third of French voters in the last presidential election?  Historian Federico Finchelstein discusses what the terms fascist and populist mean, not as abstractions, but looking at history.

Resources:

Federico Finchelstein, From Fascism to Populism in History [1] UC Press, 2017

[1] https://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520295193

Anyone listen to Novara Media? It's one the left political podcasts I've been listening to a while and would recommend - I'm not sure if it was ever discussed/posted on the Chapo thread (I've only occasionally checked it), but it's worth listening to. They cover a wide range of issues, and find a nice balance between larger abstract theoretical discussions and episodes on very specific and concrete events/movements/etc.

http://novaramedia.com/category/audio/

no

lol sorry that was a flippant answer to the thread question

I've been meaning to check out Novara stuff, Ash Sarkar is one of my favorite left twitter people

i also like ash sarkar but the novara podcast seems extremely boring and average

sports banger posted a kind of “manifesto” recently that was of course totally right on though perhaps a little unmemorable, apart from this, which has stuck with me:

REAPPROPRIATE BAD VIBES

tired: cursing
wired: casting actual curses

I’m reading The Many-Headed Hydra rn, by Rediker and Peter Linebaugh and let me tell you folks, it slaps

Benjamin Studebaker and Derick Varn having quite the cheery and expansive convo about a lot of shit going on and why/how ever leftist types ostensibly working on it are missing a lot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGVu3Kmnjw

This is quite good, gets into shit like why the UAW and Teamsters and positioning themselves differently w/r/t electeds like the Biden/Harris Admins

Orban flees Budapest

(?? there seems to be a lack of info)

yes. your source, sleeve?

worst april fools prank

OTOH, the protests continue: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungarians-keep-up-protests-against-orbans-move-ban-pride-2025-04-01/

xp thank u

‪Ned Resnikoff‬ ✧@resnik✧✧✧.b✧✧✧.soc✧✧✧‬
·
7m
American democracy hasn’t gotten a ton of lucky breaks recently but we should all be grateful that the world’s least likable man has decided to put himself on the ballot in every single election

Looks like the only economies with negative growth, out of those announced today, are the USA and Hungary. Fascism doesn't work, folks.

― Blake the Messenger (Tom D.), Wednesday, April 30, 2025 9:06 AM (two minutes ago)

https://www.politico.eu/article/political-newcomer-new-lithuanian-pm-inga-ruginiene/

good news + somewhat infuriating politico stupidity where running unions doesn't count as political experience

The less parliamentary political experience the better it might be for left politicians.

Bolsonaro convicted

They've got him by the Bols

Hurray!

What a week

it looks the 20th century US stranglehold on S American politics is not really doing it any more, long may they fuck off!

Lat Am has a lot of right wing strongholds. It will be interesting to see if Bolsanaro's movement collapses without him. Might be a preview of what happens when** Trump goes

** if..

Let's talk about the East.

https://archive.ph/dvJ96

On the left wing drift. Like, its a good definition of drift..

https://archive.ph/b5IAW

A common criticism leveled at communization theory is its perceived passivity—that it simply contends that we must wait for a major crisis of capitalism to arrive, out of which communism may have a chance to organically develop. How do you see your work responding to such critiques?

JB: One thing I would say is: Yes, that’s right. It is not a correct characterization of communization theory in its entirety; there are lots of different ideas. But it is a correct characterization of my view and the view of many people associated with communization theory, in the sense that revolutions pretty much only emerge out of crises of some sort, and they tend to unfold in the wake of wars, disasters, and economic collapses. But there are many kinds of crises, and capitalism already is the crisis, and the system itself is in crisis. The ecological crisis that is on our doorstep is going to be bigger than anything we’ve ever seen. I don’t think this claim makes me passive in any way, although it’s true it doesn’t give you something to do right now.
The contravening view is: What if we just organize hard enough all the time? But if that were possible, then why haven’t people done it? And so to people who say that communization theory discourages people from doing something that’s necessary now, or from fighting now, or from organizing now, which is an important preliminary, I just don’t think that’s true. I certainly wouldn’t discourage people in that way. People should struggle where they are, and they should try to win and to achieve some things. They should be as creative as possible, and they should build the organizations that they feel are necessary. We need to be sober in assessing the value of those kinds of efforts. In the end, the revolution will have been both the result of an event, something unpredictable, and the result of the patient work of building organizations. It’s not one or the other.

No one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

Unfortunately the first thing you see on the page is a photograph which is captioned "A plaque commemorating the 1848 Paris Commune", er....

Wait, my son. Wait xp

Sultana's remarks about a socialist party that works over decades to gain power, not just win an election can also be placed in this box.

Saying that we need a revolution to happen now is ridiculous when stopping Reform is looking highly unlikely as it is.

This stood out to me in Zarah's recent media appearances, when she said "This is a 10-20-30-40-year project."

The working class can’t wait that long in face of this capitalist crisis. We need a revolution now! pic.twitter.com/A8wASU8aTC

— Fiona Lali (@fiona_lali) November 2, 2025

both long game planning and short-term danger are legit positions imo. The most vulnerable people to the dangers of a Reform govt have every right to be absolutely exasperated at all the needless fucking about, threats of lawsuits etc caused by the Corbyn clique's self-serving power grab imo. There will a lot of excess deaths, deportations, poverty increases under a Reform govt - it's going to be a nightmare, to call it a capitalist crisis/emergency situation is fair imo. Can't afford to just write off the next GE with 4 years to go.

Given our 'wonderful' system re-electing Lab after extracting some concessions (and getting rid of Starmer) before giving them the vote is a more likely scenario rn imo. Again that could all change with three years to go, which is a very long time.

I think the Labour Together crew are so thoroughly entrenched (and corrupt as fuck) in the current govt that getting rid of Starmer will make little difference to policy direction. Too many people who are more concerned with the post government career they will enjoy to do any significant reversals on austerity that might annoy their sponsors. All they have left is their sponsors because Starmer & McSweenes have destroyed the brand and what is left of the membership despise them. So I think it's either Reform or some horrific coalition of evil, or a hung parliament. Anything but another Labour govt imo.

People should struggle where they are, and they should try to win and to achieve some things. They should be as creative as possible, and they should build the organizations that they feel are necessary. We need to be sober in assessing the value of those kinds of efforts.

Ok, but if the playbook for what to do absent a revolution is identical to the one for what to do if one is imminent, there's no real practical conclusions to take. As for the "we need to be sober" line if there's one thing the current left, locally and internationally, cannot be accused of* that is optimism towards the arrival of revolution, most lefties I know don't believe it's ever gonna happen within their lifetimes but the work is important nonetheless. So basically this is just arguing for business as usual?

* some communist twitter person who got 504 likes notwithstanding

I think these 'drift' threads look at election results as a general trend but that interview gets at what's beyond that. Hence my linking to it.

Many ppl have 'sober' assessments though come election time we will canvass for a party that speaks some of the lingo at the first opportunity, diverging energy. Obv as Calzino says short term is important too so its a hard thing to balance.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/20/frances-radical-left-on-brink-of-local-election-victory-bellwether-town-roubaix

The Green Party are increasing their members all the time.

Socialism is inevitable.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/22/paris-mayoral-race-socialist-emmanuel-gregoire-projected-to-win

see ya later, Orban

‪Richard M. Nixon‬
✧@dickni✧✧✧.b✧✧✧.soc✧✧✧‬
· 19m
Orban's loss has financial and organizational consequences for the far right worldwide.

In brief, Orban and his backers identify, train, and connect far-right politicians around the world. They do this through direct government backing (the Mathias Corvinus Collegium, etc.), media expansion, etc. They have lost the public purse and the muscle to close private deals.

fair counterpoint:

‪Prisonculture‬
✧@prisoncult✧✧✧.b✧✧✧.soc✧✧✧‬
· now
What are people of color in Hungary saying?

it's the ultimate pyrrhic victory for liberalism, an absolute cunt getting replaced by another absolute cunt.

actually a winning victory for liberalism tbf

it's pretty funny that this guy is called Hungarian Pete

my take, pretty much

‪Leonard Pierce‬
✧@leonardpie✧✧✧.b✧✧✧.soc✧✧✧‬
· 10m
/whispers

Péter Magyar was a key member of Fidesz, Tisza is a conservative nationalist party, and they’re pretty reactionary about immigration, so Hungary is far from out of the woods and liberal democracy at best merely delays fascism

/loudly

But it’s okay to be happy that Orbán got stomped!

visits the pope → pope dies

leads Iran negotiations → talks collapse

flies to Hungary to prop up Orbán → Orbán loses in a landslide

Man’s got a streak. pic.twitter.com/Xx9I2HIwtc

— Election Enjoyer 🇺🇸 (@ElxMapping) April 12, 2026

if anything it's just a sign that any American attempts at influence right now are toxic and highly damaging in western elections. This effect will get even more profoundly damaging to Trump friendly politicians as the economy crashes worse than '08 and we face food shortages in Europe. This will go way beyond Trump's lifetime - it's a death of empire thing.

This is really not the thread in this case but yes still pleased Orban is out (and in part another rejection of US and Russian bs).

if the Dems were in it wouldn't be a rejection of any US bs. It would just be a different style of genocide as usual being supported by an extra EU state leader.