Post a controversial opinion

it's interesting to note that the classical performers who seem to get the most hipster kisses are the ones who are also performers, people like Max Richter, Nils Frahm, Olafur Arnalds, or groups that are filed in that more ambient/post-rock genre even though they could easily be considered classical (if they were old men from Europe.)

even young people could have told you who van cliburn was

He's the one with that "Brown Eyed Girl" song, right?

Sund4r - perhaps I presented this view as too evangelical and not enough grumpy old twat. This is the example I was thinking of, it's enough to put anyone off classical music - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06mv4js

are you aware of Scruton in general tho CaAL? cos he's not worth taking seriously as a critic or human being

and i'd argue that his aestheticism is bad faith, derived from his general political outlook and essentially performative

I am, I even saw him talk as a sixth form politics student and have despised him ever since. But this is the sort of thing that puts people off, still.

_even young people could have told you who van cliburn was_


He's the one with that "Brown Eyed Girl" song, right?

Wait, then who was the painter guy who cut off his ear?

Van Heflin

Aw, yeah! I loved "Hot for Teacher."

Scruton was knighted in the 2016 Birthday Honours for "services to philosophy, teaching and public education".[8]

Down with the monarchy.

that's my kinda classical music amirite guys 🤘xp

van cliburn won a piano competition* and was given a recording contract as a consequence: i think these two facts are why he was public knowledge in a way

*the newly created tchaikovsky prize, held in moscow in 1958 -- there was cold war jostling all over the story

I am, I even saw him talk as a sixth form politics student and have despised him ever since. But this is the sort of thing that puts people off, still.

no i can see that. but i'd say that people get exposed to "classical" music in all sorts of mundane ways much more often than they come across a Scruton

s/b public knowledge in a way in a way most pianists of his talent absolutely weren't at that time

or maybe even, they come across the idea that classical music is boring and highbrow way more frequently than they come across a Scruton

t/s: Homer Simpson vs Roger Scruton

cold war patsy...

http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/wrti/files/styles/medium/public/201407/VanCLIBURNParade.jpg

I worked in marketing for a contemporary classical music ensemble for 10 years. Audiences were all 50+ except for the smattering of conservatory students and other musicians.

All the major SOMB (Symphony, Opera, Museum, Ballet) institutions are making efforts to reach younger audiences, though, it's not just music. And a lot of those marketing initiatives look corny and pandering. Go to the website of any major arts institution and you will find these. At one point, I was going to make a top 10 list of the "worst offenders" ... but I never found the time.

Relatedly, look for promo pics of chamber ensembles standing in front of brick walls. So many of these ... I dunno if it has any effect on audiences thinking classical music is cool.

There's a guy I know who does these sort of pop-up orchestra things where they play a mix of classical and pop songs. There's another guy I know who has this "classical revolution" tour/movement thing that he does.

But I kinda feel like it is most effective with kids -- or maybe that's what the studies show. And that gets into arts education and curriculum standards, etc. and that's another lengthy discussion.

One of the things I like about my daughter's school is that everybody learns an instrument. All third-graders start on recorder, and every fourth- and fifth-grader plays an instrument (either band or orchestra). Everybody. I like it; it's something I never had.

We were never rich but my family runs a ballet school, my mother's the concertmaster of an orchestra, I can play four or five instruments passably well. (Still have never had lessons, and still can't read music. It's all a vast tapestry.) Enough about me tho

haha the recorder put me off learning an instrument for a few years! Hated the recorder.

Audiences were all 50+ except for the smattering of conservatory students and other musicians.

Was about to say, in my experience of attending (contemporary) classical music concerts, that anyone 25 is almost certainly a music student.

... under 25. As these concerts are often at music colleges, I suspect students are encouraged to go to make the audiences seems larger.

Yeah, if we're talking about contemporary compositional music, a basic issue with marketing/outreach would seem to be that virtually anyone who has chosen that career path has more or less fundamentally decided that appealing to popular taste is (at most) a secondary concern. Unless you're Eric Whitacre or someone.

Generally speaking, kids who choose to go to a music college are going to go to the concerts held there because A) they are interested in that type of music, and B) their friends will be performing.

Tbh, in many university music courses, a certain small percentage, e.g. 5%, of your grade is given for proof of concert attendance.

^^^ that too

Backing up a bit, I've seen one opera live, it was Peter Grimes, and it was very impressive and I didn't enjoy it. Enjoyed all sorts of other live classical stuff.

Opera. In English. I think I'll pass.

you can’t walk outdoors or flush a toilet or do anything without relying on the work of people who had really backward social ideas, just reconcile yourself with it and try not to support people living off of a base of misogyny or homophobia or exploiting others in the present

Not controversial

support people ACTIVELY living

Yeah. Who knows how Thomas Edison viewed women. Probably not as equal to men. Yet, we watch movies, listen to recorded music and use electric lights without guilt. Amazing!

Probably used MANY slurs

Murdered some elephants

His actions directly caused the execution of innocent people

I feel a little guilty about the lights tbh

So much pollution affecting the migratory patterns of birds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPze305aBdA

pie charts are worse than useless for everything ever

the baffler is not a good magazine

Corn is revolting in any form

So is coffee

Corn sucks. but coffee?? nooo

Corn is worse in it's unadulterated form because you just shit it straight out, and it looks the same. It reminds you of death, and the whole grim eating/shitting cycle that is keeping you alive!

The estate tax is immoral and wrong.

Estate tax should be 100%

You guys have heard of chewing, right?

"The Tax Policy Center estimates that the estate executors for only 11,000 people who die in 2017 will end up having to file for the estate tax and that only 5,200 of them will end up having to pay anything."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/04/26/heres-how-many-people-have-to-pay-the-estate-tax-that-trump-wants-to-dump/?utm_term=.e5829a1b17b2

I just drove my car a bunch of miles on fuel that’s 10% corn alcohol then drank some corn alcohol after eating some animals that ate mostly corn

what about popcorn