Post a controversial opinion

mh is right; I love smelling tobacco drying; sometimes I'll happen across a pack of unfiltered Camels and just breathe over it for a while.

That said: Smokers in general can't smell what the nonsmokers around them are smelling. So their opinions of what is and isn't offensive are not generally a useful part of the discussion.

Not tryna be Judgey McJudgeypants but: If you set something on fire an inch and a half from your nose, your own olfactory receptors are quickly overwhelmed; you get noseblind to it. You cannot know what it smells like to other people, so your opinion of whether it's "not that bad" or whatever is inadmissible. And probably wrong. I don't ask a raging alcoholic to tell me whether my breath smells like vodka either.

I say this as a fan of some smoked things! I used to know some guys who weren't avid smokers but who liked the smell of pipe tobacco, so they took turns. One smoking, the other getting the full benefit of the smell. Not recommending that approach, just sayin' it's out there.

And calzino is onthemoneyest of onthemonies about Rothko. Rothko is frickin legit

childhood church had a deacon that smoked cigars. I generally enjoyed being an altar server because it made the tedium of mandatory Mass less painful. but you occasionally had to stand next to that deacon as he read the gospel and hold in the barf as you smelled his vile cigar breath.

I miss when there was a cigar store at the local mall because walking into the humidor room for a minute was kind of nice, just very mellow and the right humidity and tobacco smelling

cigar stores smell wonderful, it's true. other vivid tobacco memory is a classmate who could not give his loose oreos away at the lunch table in a trade because his parents' heavy smoking permeated all known man made wrappers and receptacles. that guy was badass, though, and wore sleeveless hooded sweatshirts with flaming skull print to Mass on the weekends.

oh god

I’m reminded of a date I went on where we briefly barhopped and had to take her car since she had been drinking, and insisted we take the car she could smoke in

i was not aware the human body could be permeated by cigarette smoke, but I figured it out

certain tiny liquor stores have a tobacco-ey smell that's very nice and nostalgic to me

Grew up in tobacco country, spent a lot of time hanging out in tobacco barns smelling dried tobacco.

Controversial opinion: these are some of the best smelling things you can buy at a gas station

https://assets.bestcigarprices.com/shopcontent/images/backwoods_original_pk40.jpg

what this country needs is a good 5 cent cigar

What this world needs is a good two dollar room
'N a good two dollar broom

i think i will always miss smoking, i liked it a lot.

"opera is just as immediate and relatable as popular music and people refuse to engage with it because they've been taught that it's Not For Them"

people are intimidated by it. same with classical music in general. and its one of those conundrums where you have to listen to a fair amount of classical/opera in order to appreciate/enjoy it and people aren't willing to take the time to do that. it's like learning a language. and the older you get, the less willing you are to learn a new language. (not that there isn't immediately enjoyable classical/opera, there is. which is why you hear the same pieces/arias in commercials and movies forever.)

99.99% of the people who buy records in my store don't buy classical records. and opera is even harder to sell! which is a shame. but what are you going to do?

Philistine comment: I generally don't like opera in English, because when you understand the words, you notice that they're often pretty dippy. In German or Italian or whatever I can more readily just hear the singing as musical parts.

Exception = Purcell.

I have a similar jones for religious services in Latin or Greek or Hebrew, even though I am not even remotely a believer. Incomprehensibility is more conducive to aesthetic and/or spiritual transport.

As a professional word-mover and occasional lyricist, I can't turn my brain off if I'm focusing on words. So the words either need to be very good, or somehow made irrelevant. I rarely like impressionistic/absurdist/imagist lyrics, or "voice as an instrument"-type singers.

Controversial opinion: these are some of the best smelling things you can buy at a gas station

after gasoline itself, i assume

*huffs petrol, dies*

apparently, a controversial opinion: opera is just as immediate and relatable as popular music and people refuse to engage with it because they've been taught that it's Not For Them

The more controversial take is probably that the government should spend much more money trying to convince people that opera is For Them - subsidising tickets, ensuring that it's covered at school, funding better public outreach programmes, etc - which inevitably gets seen as the rich diverting limited resources to their own niche activities.

Not opera, but chamber music: my mother runs a nonprofit orchestra with a lot of outreach/education activities. They do musical-instrument "petting zoos," they link up kids and retirees, they play for free in schools and museums and airports and oldster homes. She gets grants from various places for this.

I've seen various orchestras do similar things, most recently the Nashville Symphony.

I'm relatively supportive of those sorts of things but I don't see why they would be necessary if classical music actually is as immediate and relatable as pop to anglophones in 2017.

It's like saying "Shakespeare is as immediate and relatable as Game of Thrones", which I don't actually think is true for the general Anglo-American public (although I prefer him myself).

Not opera, but chamber music: my mother runs a nonprofit orchestra with a lot of outreach/education activities. They do musical-instrument "petting zoos," they link up kids and retirees, they play for free in schools and museums and airports and oldster homes. She gets grants from various places for this.

my wife's a classical musician and does similar things with orchestras here: stripping down classical and opera for educational purposes. the attendees love them

the thing that prevents me from going to see opera more often is the audiences you'll often find there, tbh

I think half of the reasons to cultivate niche interests is that live events don't have to be 10k people

I agree with Sund4r; some things may just really be acquired tastes.

Classical music that's immediately relatable and catchy often leads you to be the same 10 or 15 things that end up in moisturizer commercials and weddings and help-desk hold music. And some of that music is actually great! It's just that it's hard to hear Eine Kleine Fortuna Canon Messiahcracker or whatever with fresh ears.

I agree with you to a large degree, Sund4r; those things shouldn't be necessary because the contexts in which we encounter "classical"/orchestral music should be something other than a concert hall.

I sang as part of a chorus in an orchestral concert of videogame music in Symphony Hall and the crowd was NUTS; basically screaming and dancing and singing along as if it was a rock gig. People can interact with orchestral-driven music in a similar manner to pop/rock/hip-hop/r&b given the right context; the barrier to the current iteration of classical music is the artificial culture of appreciation that shackles people's responses. (I'll grant that opera is different as it's attempting to communicate a story; I don't think people should be jumping up and screaming at the stage during plays and musicals unless the show expressly asks for it.)

I do think there's an argument worth making that we should teach Bach the way we teach Shakespeare.

xps Will respond to recent posts soon. More inchoate thoughts about these things.

the barrier to the current iteration of classical music is the artificial culture of appreciation that shackles people's responses

otm

There's a decent amount of classical music in subways. Maybe we could get more people to ride subways?

I loved Bach as a kid (and still do) but he really was the Satriani of the baroque era

bach rules. he always will kinda.

this is gonna sound like the whole *you really have to SEE the actual painting in front of you* kinda thing from up top, but REALLY listening to music is something a lot of people feel uncomfortable doing. music is very utilitarian for most people and they like to do something else when its playing. but just sitting with your eyes closed or staring at the ceiling and listening to music is one way to learn how to appreciate classical music. actually playing an instrument is probably the best way. but its such a rewarding experience to follow a symphony or opera and listen to everything that's happening as it happens. with no distractions. its the best way to learn. and it involves just sitting there so its not too taxing. i taught myself to love classical music. but you have to want to put in the effort. which, i think we can agree, not a whole lot of people want to do. or not a whole lot of people feel like it's an important thing to do.

not that there is anything wrong with doing the dishes and listening to classical music. its a great thing to have around you. but even the old warhorses aren't wallpaper. they really reward deep listening.

all this thinking about music, just realized I shifted in my chair until I'm sitting on the front edge like I'm back in orchestra

I created a playlist of choral pieces I've either performed or heard multiple times that I use as lullaby music for my kids, mostly so that they have repeated exposure to it and imprint upon it as a Thing that is part of their lives. I know this could backfire on me and have them think of choral music as something you fall asleep to but it feels like the best/easiest way to put them in a setting where they are repeatedly saturated with pieces like Tallis's "Lamentations of Jeremiah", Bruckner's "Os justi meditabitur", Bach's "Singet dem Herrn ein neues Lied" and "Jesu, meine Freude", and Martin's "Mass for Double Chorus".

Uses of music, types of listening, endlessly big topics.

In college I took a music appreciation class (yeah I know) and the professor said that she can't stand background music; she physically needs to listen, so if it's on she can't do anything else. So people who think they're doing her a favor by putting music on are actually immobilizing her.

My wife has music on all the time. She can't read or work or sit without something playing; silence freaks her out.

Just about the only activity I can combine with music-listening is driving. Now that I almost never drive, I don't listen to music nearly as much. My main interest in music is playing it.

I think that I'm loosening up a little in how I approach classical. I used to have this presumption that, being musically illiterate, there was no way I was grasping the real substance of what was going on in the music. Of course, that isn't true. The classical music that I care about is made to be enjoyed by an audience of non-musicians, and there are amazingly talented musicians who have done all of the heavy lifting to make it available to be enjoyed. So it really is just a matter of listening and not worrying about having the right response.

jmm otm. It's perfectly acceptable to just let it wash over you if that's what you want to do.

im going to see the cleveland orchestra friday night, it's been at least 15 years since i've been? im excited

Severance Hall
ARTISTS
The Cleveland Orchestra
Vladimir Ashkenazy, conductor
Emanuel Ax, piano
PROGRAM
ELGAR - Serenade in E minor for String Orchestra
BEETHOVEN - Piano Concerto No. 1
ELGAR - Enigma Variations

Cleveland Orchestra is always awesome. We are so lucky to have them here.

marcos, if you're a classical/orchestra/opera fan, Cleveland Institute of Music has TONS of free concerts and recitals: https://www.cim.edu/concerts-events . Their student orchestra also performs at Severance a couple of times a year, always with a great program and their conductor is terrific. And they always do at least one large opera production a year; this year it's "Medea."

i really want to go see an orchestra, i haven't been since college

the thing that prevents me from going to see opera more often is the audiences you'll often find there, tbh

You do get some appalling people but, for the most part, it's much less snobby / elitist than it's perceived to be imo. It doesn't feel as universal as it is in Ukraine or Armenia or wherever but the majority of the audience, at least in the cheaper seats, tends to be relaxed, dressed-down, etc.

Especially in the cheap seats you'll find a lot of local performers more than willing to hip you onto whatever thing they've got going on in the next 3-6 months (at least that's how it works in Boston)

xxp and i just didn't have the ear for it then or something. i saw an undoubtedly dazzling performance of Mozart's Requiem during that time and I just wouldn't/couldn't let it into my heart. now i think, "i would really like to see that again, dammit".

go see andre rieu, he's like david lee roth

Mozart Requiem is super fun IMO. That first fugue is baller, simple enough to track all the parts but complicated enough to start wrong-footing your expectations of where it's going to go, particularly as it winds up to the climax and strolls into the Dies Irae. Plus, the Lacrymosa!

Rhapsody in Blue is better bedroom music than Barry White

Went to Beethoven 9 at Seattle Symphony a couple years ago and that was a hell of an experience.

go see andre rieu, he's like david lee roth

counterpoint: don't go see andre rieu, he's like david lee roth

Philistine comment: I generally don't like opera in English, because when you understand the words, you notice that they're often pretty dippy. In German or Italian or whatever I can more readily just hear the singing as musical parts.

This is true of all music with comprehensible lyrics, and is why I mostly listen to death metal or music in languages I don't speak. Or instrumental music.

wrong-footing your expectations of where it's going to go

Every few years I try to explain this concept to my wife and she just blinks blankly at me and says "whatever." She has loved music all her life, owns a thousand CDs, has written record reviews and worked in college radio and goes to loads of indie rock concerts and and and.

But if I start talking resolution or dissonance or key changes it just turns into Charlie Brownish whah whah whah wha wha wha. She hates classical music for what I suspect are reasons around cultural packaging. She says she doesn't get it, feels "judged" by it, thinks it isn't for her. She says she knows it's an irrational reaction but it is visceral and pretty much indelible. The only instrumental music she likes is Copland and the "Requiem for a Dream" soundtrack.

synthesis: i love David Lee Roth, and i don't want to watch him lead an orchestra

Mozart Requiem absolutely rules as a piece of music, not a controp obv. But it was Mozart who turned me onto classical when I was young and still held some very bad assumptions about music.