Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

just think that's a shame tbh, this personal space/intimacy/propriety lark feels like a gulf of self-inflicted sadness to me

i'm not sure i see it as a shame -- but i do lament the ability to snuggle with people because i am a cuddly person. it's a bummer. unfortunately, the world we live in doesn't permit a person like me to indulge the availability of cuddles because of 1001 reasons not the least of which is sexual assault.

i think "no cuddling"/easy on the skinship is a safe default position if you don't want to make someone deeply uncomfortable for any number of reasons.

consensual cuddling rules

I just don't get the idea of non-sexual cuddling. What's the point?

this question made me sad

it's one of those things you read that reminds you how different people are.

Had a hug from JCLC about six or seven years ago, still recall it fondly. Would recommend

yeah, his are good

I just don't get the idea of non-sexual cuddling. What's the point?

Assuming you mean non-sexual cuddling outside of an intimate relationship here. There's something very comforting about it inasmuch as it's an end unto itself without expectations. And I guess it's also a mutual demonstration of trust, in a way. Like 'honored' feels like a weird word to use in this context, but it kinda describes how I've felt on the occasions when I've platonically cuddled with or slept in the same bed as a female friend. I do feel honored that those women have felt comfortable with me in that context, particularly when I consider that their general expectations about male behavior might make them apprehensive to do so with other men.

I love hugs and giving hugs, but cuddling requires more physical contact, and if I'm cuddling with a Jake Gyllenhaal type I'm gonna wanna crawl inside his beard.

hold on -- sleeping in the same bed and NOT touching/spooning/anything but sleeping is not cuddling
if you are touching or holding the other person in an affectionate manner before after or during sleeping in the same bed, that is cuddling
otherwise, merely sleeping in proximity is not cuddling imo

i get what you are saying and it makes sense -- i just want to make sure you all don't think sleeping in the same bed is the same as cuddling?!

Civil War soldiers spooned for warmth btw

some of them probably forked as well, but that's outside the scope of the discussion

Yeah, we're on the same page, LL. Platonically sharing a bed/cuddling/sharing a bed AND cuddling are all distinct things of varying levels of intimacy but which all require a pretty high trust threshold.

indeed

What a cuddle fuddle this is.

Seeing an above average level of Ames/Taibbi chatter today

Maleness thread has intimacy issues, withdraws after discussion of hugging and cuddling.

A thread can be both strong and tender, maleness thread. Give yourself the gift of vulnerability, maleness thread.

N E V E R

group hug

Like, a sexual one?

christian side hugs only

I feel like hugging became more normal among high school, college and university students in the early 00s, it seemed new to me but I didn't mind. Sometimes it seemed like a forced cutesy thing and everybody would hug even if they barely knew each other but had been established within a circle of friends. I still hug a few friends because you want to after you've started the tradition. Kids definitely hug more these days.

kissing women on the cheek became normal in the years after university, even women you barely knew, and i always thought it was weird that it was only women who got that treatment (from men and women). the French have it down imo, everybody kisses everybody else, both cheeks, bring it in here big guy, and yes you do have to get to know someone a little first.

at brewery in Flagstaff, overheard a big group toast to toxic masculinity

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette1.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fsimpsons%2Fimages%2F9%2F91%2FKamp_Krusty_94.JPG%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20130523052212&f=1

lol

I never kiss cheeks because (1) scared of germs (2) I'm just never prepared for it. I find it very hard to put my face into the kissing shape, it's like suddenly being asked to do a backflip.

So you're saying you can't turn your face into a kiss?

so embarrassing when that happens

https://is4-ssl.mzstatic.com/image/thumb/Music/e8/b9/27/mzi.nzylqyso.jpg/600x600bf.jpg

I feel like the Terminator slowly trying to smile when I need to make the kissing face.

i want to know more about this kissing face

you are aware that you can kiss just by pursing your lips slightly against a surface?

https://img-prod-cms-rt-microsoft-com.akamaized.net/cms/api/am/imageFileData/RE1htac?ver=8186&q=90&m=6&h=450&w=800&b=%23FFFFFFFF&l=f&o=t

Don't you need to make a kissing noise too? Usually it's not just silently pressing lips against the cheek.

kissing on the cheek is rough, i like it in principle but i'm always worried that my beard is gonna scratch delicate faces

someone post that Everything Is Terrible guide to kissing ffs

Lip's very strange!

The trick is to do such a horrifyingly poor job of it the first time that it's never expected of you a second.

bonus points for exaggeratingly saying mmmmmmWAH

I dread a certain friend who has to hug every single person in the room upon arriving and leaving. It's so relentlessly comprehensive.

Don't you need to make a kissing noise too? Usually it's not just silently pressing lips against the cheek.

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, October 27, 2017 11:45 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

do a slight lip purse and then make the noise. try it. it's not too hard.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6156ZhOnRpI/UdAg3DUXwII/AAAAAAAAHD4/t6IuKZTo4Co/s913/Tener.jpg

was wondering how long that was going to take to show up tbh (it was the first thing I thought of)

Me too, but I went with Prince instead.

do a slight lip purse and then make the noise. try it. it's not too hard.

― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 October 2017 21:39

I don't think I can do it right. It feels daft unless you're sucking their skin for a split-second (blowing just makes a blowing sound) and I don't feel comfortable doing that with most people.

wtaf

well then

http://www.publicbooks.org/big-picture-confronting-manhood-trump/

In fact, we should be as suspicious of males who strongly identify as men as we are of white people who strongly identify as white. We should understand, in hindsight, that one of the reasons women were so keen to embrace masculinity in the first place was because it feels good to feel superior. And we should recognize, as well, that it is men’s belief that they should be superior to women and other men that is the cause of so much of their rage, self-hatred, and suffering.

We are here in Trump’s America in part because we have been too delicate in our treatment of dangerous ideas. The problem is not toxic masculinity; it’s that masculinity is toxic. Its appeal is its alluring promise that if we obey it, we can all bask in a sense of superiority over someone. It’s simply not compatible with liberty and justice for all.

And the paragraph above that:

If we’re going to survive both President Trump and the kind of people he has emboldened, we need to attack masculinity directly. I don’t mean that we should recuperate masculinity—that is, press men to identify with a kinder, gentler version of it—I mean that we should reject the idea that men have a psychic need to distinguish themselves from women in order to feel good about themselves. This idea is sexist on its face and it’s unsettling that we so rarely think of it that way.

Not sure what the purpose of this thread is. Not sure a thread needs to be dedicated to this. Every thread is a mans thread on ilx mostly. "I long to hear a womens voice" tbh

mom raised me and I will always respect women because of how I was raised. I wish we d