My idiot friend was like, "lol. OK. I think he should kill himself, but whatever"
While we're on the subject of toxic culture / relationships, about this friend of yours...
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:45 (six years ago) link
You don’t take them out for brunch?
― Treeship, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:45 (six years ago) link
If it’s a literal rapist we are talking about and this person suffered abuse or something, the attitude is understandable, if uncharitable and against how I try to live. Xp
I still think the “spectrum” model of this stuff causes confusion. Like if someone wanted all catcallers to kill themselves, or all people who made a clumsy pass at a female acquaintance at a party but backed off when they saw it wasn’t working, I’d say that was extreme. I know all this stuff feeds into each other but still. There is a line between toxic and criminal.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:49 (six years ago) link
@ Alfo lol. I'm only in it for the cuddle. The brief period I was using hook-up apps, a guy asked "so, what are you into?" and I said "I'll do anything, anything at all, so long as you spoon me all night and eat the breakfast I make for you in the morning"
― blade runner 2069 (fgti), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby aren’t mere casualties of a society with regressive attitudes. They’re sexual predators. They knew what they did was wrong and did it anyway. Over and over.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:51 (six years ago) link
hugging = of course, sleeping in same bed = eh, if necessary, no big deal, "cuddling" = erm, no guys are gross.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:52 (six years ago) link
Everyone has a different level of energy for doing emotional labor for others. I have very little these days especially for people with certain behaviors like domestic violence, harmful drug abuse, habitual coercive behaviors. Idk. I mean I don't actually want them to die but I'm indifferent to the prospect of their non-existence.
― Conic section rebellion 44 (in orbit), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link
Ya perfect breakdown tbh xp
― Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:54 (six years ago) link
one of my Korean students taught me the best Konglish word for platonic touching: SKINSHIPis that the greatest or what?! i bring it up because i had asked my students what some of their pet peeves were (conversation/idiom practice) and skinship was brought up immediately.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
some interesting stuff here: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/interrogation/2017/10/anthony_bourdain_on_weinstein_john_besh_and_meathead_restaurant_culture.html
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
― Conic section rebellion 44 (in orbit), Wednesday, October 25, 2017 10:54 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
That's totally valid, almost doesn't even need to be explained. Those types of behavior are black holes of energy and emotion, and it's rare for an effort to even pay off.
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
I could stand a world with more cuddling as long as it's not random douchebags in the street trying to sell me something or be wacky
"guys are gross" is hmmmmm, interesting, lie down on the couch and tell me more
― pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:57 (six years ago) link
lol I was about to be all "gawd we already TALKED about that" but then I realized I was bringing a conversation on Facebook over here
― Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:58 (six years ago) link
I feel like cuddling is reserved for my significant other and my children (who will also surely grow out of it/not want it at some point - presumably around puberty)
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:58 (six years ago) link
see I could not cuddle with a man without succumbing to...urges
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:58 (six years ago) link
haha sorry Danxp
lol well Doc you see it all started when I realized I was a hetero cis-gendered male...
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:59 (six years ago) link
This is also how I feel; if I'm not in a sexual relationship with you or raising you, I do not want to cuddle you.
― Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:00 (six years ago) link
29 out of 30...i don't know about that. i mean, i wonder what the definition of cuddling is here, because my definition is more like...
http://thefilmspectrum.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Screen-Shot-2013-11-24-at-3.36.49-PM.png
― nomar, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:01 (six years ago) link
I remember a point in my childhood where I just decided it wasn't ok to kiss my dad goodnight anymore and then maybe a few years after I kinda regretted making this arbitrary withdrawal of physical contact that by then felt too late to undo
― pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:01 (six years ago) link
I can't separate cuddling from sex, whether as prelude or aftermath, and neither could John Candy.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:02 (six years ago) link
In most Latino households, men kiss close male relatives on the cheek; it's no big deal. When I get drunk, I get kissy with straight friends.
I'm only exploring this playfully but I'm not sure why straightness or cisness would lead you to effectively reject your own physicality tho, guys are gross = "I am gross"
― pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:03 (six years ago) link
Bold statement imo
― Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:04 (six years ago) link
Bourdain has taken to Twitter to attack “meathead culture” in the restaurant world
Bourdain maintains a ridiculous vendetta against veganism, so who's the real "meat head"
― Erotic Wolf (crüt), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:04 (six years ago) link
eh kissing on the cheek euro/latino-greeting style is no big deal
in India male friends hold hands walking down the street etc., which I always found an interesting contrast to the west
xp
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:04 (six years ago) link
NV obviously I meant *other* guys are gross. I am awesome and deserving of all the love I can get.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:05 (six years ago) link
Arms draped over shoulders is close enough whether sitting or standing with the lads
Don't tbh feel it needs a lot of investigating. I don't know many women who cuddle their friends either.
29 from 30 sounds to me like you're stretching what cuddles are alright
― Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:06 (six years ago) link
Brothers, dad and close cousins may or may get a big sloppy kiss behind the ear idk this stuff is contextual
― Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:07 (six years ago) link
I don't like touching other people or being touched by other people. My wife is the sole exception to this. I wouldn't even shake hands if it wasn't socially mandated, and I am definitely not a hug-one's-coworkers type. This is not germophobia or anything; it's just personal space. You stand over there, I'll stand over here, and we'll have a nice friendly conversation.
― grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:08 (six years ago) link
anything "natural" is worth picking at imo
of course I understand why people don't cuddle - proper cuddle - people beyond their closest intimacy circle, the same reason I wouldn't do it
just think that's a shame tbh, this personal space/intimacy/propriety lark feels like a gulf of self-inflicted sadness to me
― pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:09 (six years ago) link
Of course, my wife has occasionally had to advise me that we'll get better service if I make eye contact with the waiter/waitress when ordering, so maybe I'm more of an outlier than I realize.
― grawlix (unperson), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:10 (six years ago) link
I just don't get the idea of non-sexual cuddling. What's the point?
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:10 (six years ago) link
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, October 25, 2017 4:02 PM (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Lol. Same though. Hugging on meeting, departing, or in between for whatever: sure. Kissing male friends too, all no big deal. Cuddling though, can't imagine that.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:11 (six years ago) link
wrote that before reading unperson's post - obv some people feel strongly about personal space - I work with a load of them - and sure, fine, but probably for many people it's just a propriety/convention thing and the world would be great if we had a bit more animal chimpunity
― pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:11 (six years ago) link
It's a pity I am an excellent cuddler tbh
― Gary Synaesthesia (darraghmac), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:11 (six years ago) link
the honesty's too much
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:12 (six years ago) link
I don't think cuddling w people outside my closest intimacy circle would make me happier in any way. I am not sad about the level of cuddling in my life. For ex., I have a 4yo boy who is super-cuddly, I get it every day, it's plenty and it's great.
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:12 (six years ago) link
ah there's the difference, I'm a sad single isolated old man
― pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:13 (six years ago) link
sort of tying this back into the "consent" thing, I've been trying to make a point of asking my 5-yr-old daughter "do you want a hug?" "do you want me to cuddle you?" Sometimes she says yes, sometimes no, and I do feel like it is giving her the message that it's ok for her to decide when she wants someone to touch her.
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:14 (six years ago) link
nah I'm just tactile if I can say that without sounding like the worst creepoid on earth.
consentually tactile
― pulled pork state of mind (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:14 (six years ago) link
In times when life was more, um, fluid, I am pretty sure I slept platonically with five or six close friends, both male and female, in various combinations.
It was seen as a gesture of trust and comfort; the nonsexual nature of it was overtly discussed and understood. Also we were poor and weird and lived what I guess might be called edgy or alternative lifestyles, with lots of staying out late, lots of booze and drugs, considerable sexuality and gender ambiguity, and lots of being in unusual places with sketchy dwelling arrangements and few transportation options.
Can't quite imagine this happening now that my friends and I are living rather more conventionally, with houses and jobs and families and adult routines. I'm not going to approach Bob or Susan at work (or even after a co-worker happy hour) and suggest we have a little cuddle.
― what if a much of a which of a wind (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:15 (six years ago) link
this is still my fave image of manliness. kiss a guy on the mouth while he is holding a shotgun in the woods. and then kill him probably. i can't remember the movie.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/kirk-douglas-kissing-alex-cord-in-a-scene-from-the-film-the-1968-picture-id151790678
― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:18 (six years ago) link
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Wednesday, October 25, 2017 4:14 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
:) :) :) :)
― Conic section rebellion 44 (in orbit), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:19 (six years ago) link
i'm a pretty physical person and i enjoy embraces, hugs, arms on my shoulders. i'm hesitant to do the same to others unless i am very sure that it is welcome (e.g. w/ my wife, sons, brothers, and very close friends) but i really enjoy when others do it to me. there was an older colleague in a more senior position to me at my previous job and on my very first day he put his arm around me and welcomed me to the organization, i really appreciated his warmth and have always thought of him fondly, though it is very easy to see how someone else would find such an act very loathsome and uncomfortable, even threatening.
the only "non-sexual" cuddling apart from my wife and kids i've experience was this weird phase in freshman year in college when our group of friends (male & female) would often cuddle each other in the dorms. i don't really believe that it was non-sexual though for everyone involved, i think more likely many of us were just too shy or inhibited to initiate sex.
― marcos, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:20 (six years ago) link
Brothers, dad and close cousins may or may get a big sloppy kiss behind the ear
haaa this is great
― marcos, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:22 (six years ago) link
This is an issue in my job - we have to put teenagers with host families and there is a lot of safeguarding / criminal checks work to go with this, and we'd basically advise hosts not to touch guests *at all* beyond a handshake. There was a case with a 17-year-old girl from Spain, she was homesick during her first week in the UK and complained that her host family wouldn't hug her or physically comfort her when she was crying about it. The line we take about this is that these are "British cultural values" and we have to stick to them in the context of the UK, no exceptions, but it's a bit of a cop-out, we have these huge cultural problems with abuse and for want of an alternative we are attempting to fix them with the bluntest instrument possible. Not that I can think of a workable alternative.
― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:24 (six years ago) link
i think i've read the word cuddle enough for one day. i think it's too close to the word cloying to me...
― scott seward, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:25 (six years ago) link
infantile regression to non-sexualized intimacy a balm in a hyper-sexualized hyper-mediated world
― j., Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:32 (six years ago) link
hyper-hyphenated world ya mean
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:33 (six years ago) link