― mark s (mark s), Monday, 10 February 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 10 February 2003 19:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 10 February 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
I was called before a high school English department tribunal for using this word in a newspaper article my freshman year. They wanted to know where I had stolen it from.
Martin, I think you're on the right track, since I do recall reading about jazz musicians favorably talking about "hipsters," at least c. 1950. Although by then the word had a slightly patronizing cast, it seems, meaning someone who came from the outside but eagerly, admirably wanted in. (I.e. the white fans who would trek to Harlem clubs in those days.)
I think the word's lost most if not all of its racial implications right? Can we safely say that?
― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 20:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Monday, 10 February 2003 20:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 20:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
What do people who are overly populist about having fun do for fun?
I don't know if you're hip or not, Edd, but you're definitely OTM.
-- Stuart (gonzomoos...), February 10th, 2003
See, Stuart, I'm so unhip I don't even know what "OTM" means. On the money? Off the money? Off the mark? On the mountain (Hank Williams Jr. reference)? I always thought the word itself came from Wolof (sp?); that's what Robert Palmer (the late music writer, not the British singer who wears suits all the time) says in "Deep Blues."
I always was under the impression that "hipster" was not a compliment, it referred to a white-person jazz wannabe--who was that guy, Dean Benedetti, who wire-recorded all the Charlie Parker solos he could get but left out the others? Am I wrong here? Didn't the term come into general use in the bebop era?
― Edd Hurt (delta ed), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:10 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
(when i was in the shower today i flashed on that sun ra quote "blah blah these are the hopes and dreams of someone, don't be so hip" to his sneering band. i can't date it, tho.)
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
And it's the third one at that.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
So--who out there can get to the bottom of the etymology of "hip"? The "hip-hip-hooray" hypothesis doesn't strike me as very convincing. Surely someone out there knows the answer. Actually, looking back up the thread, the explanation of its origin in the name of the Chicago saloonkeeper strikes me as plausible.
― Edd Hurt (delta ed), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
I haven't read the piece yet, but he quotes Foreigner's 'I Want To Know What Love Is' as one of the ten worst songs of all time, so I'm suspicious.
― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:28 (twenty-one years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
i think the wolof "hipicat" deal is a gazillion times more plausible than the chicago barman one!!
ps the word "dude" was reintroduced to america by p.g.wodehouse
― mark s (mark s), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
I don't think Paul Oliver is that bad, he always carefully qualifies the connections he draws b/t Africa and the blues even if it is a more central part of his writing than of Charters's, Lomax's, etc. Anyways, I should add that Palmer had the benefit of a few decades' more ethnomusicological analysis than Charters (who *ahem* chartered blues studies to some extent).
― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
I had this problem with "ululating"
― Matt (Matt), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:38 (twenty-one years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 10 February 2003 23:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
I myself believe (off-topic here) that 99% of all blues writing is worthless--I've read just about every book on the topic.
― Edd Hurt (delta ed), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 00:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 00:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 00:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan I., Tuesday, 11 February 2003 06:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 06:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
clearly, the boy is a hipster.
― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― ron (ron), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:40 (twenty-one years ago) link
He's so dangerous!
― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan I. (Dan I.), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 07:57 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan I., Tuesday, 11 February 2003 09:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
I'm sorry I hijacked your thread! I didn't mean any harm to you or them or anyone, it was just a really bad combination of my eye happening to fall on something I thought was cool and me failing to realize that presenting it in a certain way could be construed in a way other than I intended.
again, I'm sorry, but also: look at those first two kids, is there any way I (or anyone) could have possibly have even suggested that they were anything other than very, very cool?
― Dan I., Tuesday, 11 February 2003 09:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan I., Tuesday, 11 February 2003 09:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
TRENDY, by the way, is a bit of an insult in my books. But I prefer leading to following in terms of my aesthetic choices. I also do not abandon my aesthetic choices according to the whims of fashion (which is not the same as getting sick of a record or a skirt; my aesthetic will merely inform my next choice).
― suzy (suzy), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 09:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 10:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
i suppose cool is like eccentric or diva. it cannot be self-bestowed.
― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 10:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 19:27 (twenty-one years ago) link
(See Nabisco!)
― Amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 19:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 19:37 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Andrew L (Andrew L), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 19:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 19:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 20:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
― lyra (lyra), Tuesday, 11 February 2003 20:40 (twenty-one years ago) link