Rolling Maleness and Masculinity Discussion Thread

the killer thing back then when I started talking about it (late 20s) was that my mom still wanted to call the guy a friend.

― sleeve, Friday, 13 October 2017 20:19 (thirty-four minutes ago) Permalink

btw the reason I was reminded of my account was because of this. My mom did eventually end her friendship with them, but she put me in harms' way for years with a guy she knew there was something not right about, but I guess in her flawed way she was blindered about it. The family was like my second family growing up. I can't imagine letting my kids be alone with someone I had even the slightest bad inkling about. So I can see how that's one of the hardest things to deal with -- the lack of protection from someone who is supposed to protect you.

marcos <3

sleeve too. what a mess we live in.

these days I view it as a battle scar in the struggle to raise liberated children, which occasionally (frequently?) backfired in the 70's. There was so much of an emphasis on breaking with former traditions that an anything-goes vibe left a lot of room for people to take advantage of the lack of clarity regarding the brave new hippie world's limits.

yeah there was this strain of parenting that didn't want to be "uptight" or "inhibited"

I don't see so much of that these days re: sexuality

(I def see a lot of "let yr kid be whatever they want" re: gender tho)

that was it exactly re" not wanting to be "inhibited", in fact one of the things that made my parents leave the commune as members (we already lived off-land) was that this same guy had a community-approved "consensual" relationship with one of the other boys there who was slightly younger than me. we're still friends with the family 40 years later, but I have no idea how this all played out between them all in the long run. note that my parents had no idea anything had happened between this dude and me when they left.

n.b. this was in like 1978 or something

OMG, I totally hung out with a dude friend all day today at the store! Such good timing for this thread. My pal Willie. Who is an excellent musician and an excellent friend. We even drank some beers. Such a rarity in my boring life. It was fun. We just talked about music and I played him cool music really loud. It was nice.

If it's Willie L4ne I feel like he is one of the least macho dudes ever. great guy.

Maybe move thread to 77?

Not to speak for anyone, but

If this thread moves there i'm out

yeah keep it here pls

I'm glad this thread is working so well so far. I feel like even five years ago it might not have.

I'm good with it here fwiw

im fine with it here

When I was a kid my mom would force me to wear women's clothing as if it were normal... not dresses or anything, but clothing with a feminine flair. She did it so I would attract violence from other people, which I most certainly did! She'd make me hang out with kids who'd torture and murder animals in the woods I told her about.

The worst of it was getting kidnapped and almost murdered at 10 years old, which I had to escape from like in a fucking episode of 24. And they just laughed in my face, and my brother brought my kidnapper home to show me my life meant nothing to them.

My entire family created this fake identity of me as a gay faggy woman loser... when I was actually a pretty masculine guy. Heterosexual, too!

The crippling PTSD they induced in me they used as fuel for this alternate identity, because weak = woman/gay/non-man in our culture. It wasn't helped when I got molested at 14 by two older men I met off the internet, because I was forced to live in isolation from all human contact, and any human being taking interest in me was like water in a desert from genuine solitary confinement. Theoretically, the only salvation was school..

Which didn't work out. My older brother told everyone in high school I was gay after I got molested, and they all believed him, so I had to spend my entire high school career with everyone convinced I was gay. I'd ask girls out, and they'd say, "I thought you were gay!!!" and friends moms would say, "don't be alone with him, he's gay! Watch out!"

Of course I was never gay, or a woman, or even all that feminine. Just a regular heterosexual guy. That was a real head trip to live through. The foundation that built on led me to getting sexually harassed by creepy as fuck women and men at work... so on and so forth.

The world's a pretty fucked up place! I've made my peace with all this, so there's nothing "downer" here from me. And I left out the worst stuff.

Good vibes to you all who've lived through shit, it's nice in a way to see that it's not just me who lived through crap...

I'm having a little trouble with this narrative and especially the "faggy"/but I'm masculine part. If you're trolling uh fuck you

The "faggy" is what was forced on me. The "masculine" is what I personally identify with. I was a bare knuckle boxer when I was kid, my dream was to go to West Point and be one of those great generals from WW II I'd read about, maybe a captain of industry like Carnegie.

I was a fierce, terrible motherfucker. And they put that shit on me because they're the same way, just beyond psychopathic. I'm telling this because I think it's darkly hilarious, and I also consider it a badge of victory I survived that shit and made it out better than most people make out of their normal, healthy lives. Apple doesn't fall from the tree...

No, I'm not trolling you. This is real shit. There's way worse out there, and I've seen it with my own eyes. Ex. a case I worked on where a father chopped up his family and threw them out in garbage bags on garbage day. That one didn't make the news.

A - it's not darkly hilarious
B - claiming that a body in garbage bags didn't make the news is not helping your case

It wasn't "a body", it was an entire family. I think it's darkly hilarious, because if you lived through it and didn't, you'd blow your brains out.

note: my story as darkly hilarious, not that awful case I worked on...

ILX 2017, where someone opens up about being molester and abused and is immediately shouted down because it wasn't PC enough, kudos

*molested

uh Whiney are you familiar with carpet_kaiser?

Beyond politics threads, not really

Aw hi whiney, go fuck yourself and your new leaf of convenient concern troll bullshit.

I think the issue most of the time is kaiser appleton's posts tend to be phrased just about as melodramatically as possible, not so much that he isn't sufficiently PC or whatever. he's mellowed a little since his first handle got banned but that's not a high bar, and after a whole thread of guys opening up about rough, ugly experiences growing up, to be like "yo yo but my ENTIRE FAMILY is PSYCHOPATHS" is at the very least a technical foul

Guys whiney is here and he's worried about everyone's feelings as usual

finally we can talk about our feelings

seriously this thread has been good so far, KIU, KIP, etc.

There's no reason to disbelieve kaiser's claim that he suffered trauma and abuse but his way of talking about it has concerned a lot of posters over a long period of time. The specifc details he's shard seem a little unbelievable but unbelievable things happen I guess. I don't know how to phrase this without sounding condescending, but I really, really hope kaiser has someone to talk to about all of this in real life, hopefully a mental health professional.

Ahahahahaa. Sorry dudes. I forgot once again I can't talk about my life under any circumstance ever. I know the deal, trust me.

Melodrama. Fuck you. Fuck you all! Now you see why I think this is darkly hilarious.

I'm with whiney on this. Kaiser has talked about his family's abuse and his trauma before and I know he annoys you guys and he's over the top, but I think we should treat him at least as if we take him at his word, even if what he says isn't 100% true. not everyone is gonna communicate like the quintessential ilxor and this in fact seems like the source of most of the conflicts around here, because most of us don't communicate like quintessential ilxors all of the time.

Fuck you too! It is hilarious.

"That modifier is always hilarious, by the way," he posted, darkly.

It's definitely not hilarious. Carpet kaiser is clearly a person in distress. Shouting him down or insulting him is definitely not the right thing to do.

like, say instead, "that's terrible, I'm sorry that happened to you, btw it makes me uncomfortable when you say 'faggy' as if that were a bad thing."

I think you mean darkly shouted down

anyway moving on:

Lads

Yes I'm sorry, it was insensitive to react with disbelief when you said you found a garbage bag full of people and no one ever noticed, obviously you are a reliable source in all those other cases silly me.

even if what he says isn't 100% true

Here's the thing: this is 100% true. There are witnesses you can talk to, who are very real people, respectable people, who've told me to get the hell out of dodge from that scene.

The fact that you all can't even bear to think this could possibly be real... yeah. How do you think I feel having lived through it. Ahahahahaha! That's all I can say to that. Just laugh.

Yeah, moving on. I keep forgetting this stuff is like this...

fwiw I just think you're probably in your cups just a little whenever you post, thus the OTTness. your previous incarnation was insufferable on the politics threads though. since this is a thread about maleness, consider my feedback the equivalent of a friendly punch in the shoulder that's intended to get you to take it down a notch.

If I come across as OTT, it's probably because I use language like knives to take out my anger, and I do that on the internet. Cuz ya know, I'd be living in a dumpster if I did any of that in real life... I'm probably going to take up a combat sport to deal with that particular issue.

you use language like melon ballers

don't take up a fucking combat sport, find a decent therapist that's "on network" and stick to it. goofy ass mindfulness exercises and talking through stuff with a trained LCSW might do you a world of good.

The combat sports is because I have a nuclear level of energy inside of me, and no therapist can do anything about that! I mean dude, I come from a family of military people, entrepreneurs, boxers, and more, who lust after destroying people, and the world, in total warfare.

I'm a decent guy with a conscience, but I have so much energy inside of me I could destroy a fucking city. That's how it feels, at least. I need an outlet for that.

If I can find a therapist who has fuck all about what I'm dealing with, all the better, but I haven't found one yet. The best I've found are authors like John Le Carre who sort of get it.

Okay, punching people in a ring with pads and helmets might be a worthwhile outlet, but a lot of people here that care about angry internet randos have suggested you keep plugging away on the talk-to-a-professional front.

good mourning!

https://24.media.tumblr.com/a16a78dc124f5b249276aa292e81307b/tumblr_morqmcKh6p1qakh43o1_250.gif