Hillary Clinton: Classic or Dud?

Chisholm, as I recall her, would have clearly defined her differences with HRC, then after HRC's nomination would have endorsed her and campaigned for her, while still retaining her differences even as she made compelling pragmatic arguments in Clinton's favor. She was great.

You mean if she were running against her, sure. That's basically what Bernie did. Whether she'd prefer Hillary over Bernie seems like a tougher question.

I'm pretty sure Chisholm would have felt more comfortable with Bernie's positions than with Hillary's in the primaries, but she was nothing if not clear-sighted, and would have worked hard both to elect Hillary and to bring Hillary in her direction.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-media-has-a-probability-problem/?ex_cid=538twitter

really great essay by nate. this is the sort of stuff i was ineffectually yelling into those crowded pre-election threads. we should learn form our mistakes

we should learn form our mistakes

sorry, but, lol

ha

an but would Reagan have endorsed Hillary?

also as bad as trump is hillary is no saint

― reggie (qualmsley)

thomas aquinas was our best president

the level of smearing and the amount of bile leveled at HRC since early 1992 is certainly unprecedented for an American female politician, and was basically destined to be early on for the first woman who had the spine to run for president for real in a country as bigoted, class-riven, and sexist as the US.

How much of the "bile leveled at HRC" from 1992-2000 was a product of her association with Bill (not exactly a beloved figure to the American right) and to what extent can you even call her a politician before 2000? Was she really treated worse than Michelle Obama (whose husband created far less dirt for anyone to react to)? I don't recall 2000-2008 being a particularly fraught time for her politically.

This goes in hand with the arguments that left opposition to Hillary had to have secretly been driven entirely by misogyny rather than ideology. She was the standard bearer for Clintonism, which the left had objected to... since 1992. DOMA and welfare reform and Iraq sanctions and militarism and deregulation and on and on, before you even get to her vote to invade Iraq. Pointing to a lack of objection to Obama fails because he ran in 2008 against Clintonism.

To the extent that there used to be something dubbed Hillarycare

milo - Hillary was in the media a lot during the 1992 primaries. During the campaign they referred to themselves as a "get 2 for the price of 1" presidency. She was a total break from the past w/r/t how First Ladies should behave. Right out of the gate, many people hated her for that.

Yes, I was around for the Clinton era. Being a prominent political figure isn't the same as being a politician - she didn't run for anything (until 2000) as herself but acted as support for Clinton and his policies (which is how the sins of the Clinton Administration become her sins for the left).

Obviously a constant undercurrent of misogyny (initially disguised as traditional family roles) underlines her treatment by the right - as it does for every prominent woman (cf. 'Pocahontas Warren,' Cynthia McKinney, Pelosi, etc.). Every national Democratic figure, male or female, has been constantly slandered by the right-wing media machine since Jimmy Carter. To the extent that she's had it worse it was a product of her stature alongside Bill as the right-wing talk radio boom really took off and I don't see that she deserves special sympathy above and beyond any of those figures.

Her friend killed himself and a GOP senator was shooting at pumpkins to prove she murdered him. just like what happens to every dem politician

I don't see that she deserves special sympathy above and beyond any of those figures.

Great. It isn't a contest to see who deserves the most sympathy. She simply deserves a measure of sympathy commensurate with the amount and vileness of the slander she's had to endure. That seems fair.

Every national Democratic figure, male or female, has been constantly slandered by the right-wing media machine since Jimmy Carter Truman died.

Every national Democratic figure, male or female, has been constantly slandered by the right-wing media machine since Jimmy Carter Truman died. Yalta.

if you vote for the Iraq War and Patriot Act you deserve no fucking sympathy and in fact the opposite

yeah it's fair game then for people to call you a cunt and a murderess and whatnot. you'd fit right in at a Trump rally, Adam.

hillary is bad. the people who use sexist language or stupid conspiratorial bullshit to attack her are also bad. this is not hard.

Apparently it is!

I've a friend whose own friends are such sycophants that they wondered why Chris Hayes wasn't "bowing and scraping with gratitude that she set foot in the studio."

the "right-wing media machine" didn't exist so much in the truman/yalta days, did it?

well, now that we know who the bad people are, we can all breathe a bit easier.

lock her up! uranium 1 - trump 2! clinton foundation!!

For once in my life even I feel defensive of Hillary Clinton right now, this is ridiculous.

benghazi! steele dossier! podesta!

it's sad that she's definitely going to jail now

the GOP freaking out about Hillary Clinton is like the L.A. Dodgers right now complaining about some bad umpiring in their NLCS win over the Cubs.

trump could end up in jail and his followers will blame it on the deep state and scream about benghazi some more. it's a really unsatisfying state of affairs because these people are too insane to acknowledge any setback or defeat for the trump administration. can't feel schadenfreude against someone too warped to realize things are fucked for them

I hope someone has posted a link to this at some point in the lifetime of this thread:

Watch til the end pic.twitter.com/vb6NzcKjBw

— jordan yule log ⛄️ (@JordanUhl) December 4, 2017

Jesus Mary and Joseph!

do we know yet (her emails?) why the clintons' house in chappaquidick was on fire yesterday (the day before 'fire and fury' was published and tina johnson's house was set on fire)?

she had printed out all the missing emails from the email server and the burning of them got out of hand i presume?

the day comrade combover's DOJ re-re-re-re-opened GOP investigation of her?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/justice-department-looking-into-hillary-clintons-emails-again

do we know yet (her emails?) why the clintons' house in chappaquidick was on fire yesterday (the day before 'fire and fury' was published and tina johnson's house was set on fire)?

― reggie (qualmsley)

the spirit cooking got out of hand

xps chappaqua, not chappaquidick lol

Maybe the Chappaquiddick bridge was the third way ; )

Dud

NYT: Hillary Clinton Chose to Shield a Top Adviser Accused of Harassment in 2008 via @NYTimes https://t.co/k6lPC3Ffvg

— Jake Tapper (@jaketapper) January 26, 2018

Yep, they made him go to counseling then fired him when he did it again. What sucks is that you just know that there’s no way she’ll end up being arrested for this.

I know right, sucks

http://www.funnyordie.com/thumbnails/6e4e47e10a/fullsize
"Did somebody say . . ."

there’s no way she’ll end up being arrested

so you're saying... lock her up?

Yep, they made him go to counseling then fired him when he did it again. What sucks is that you just know that there’s no way she’ll end up being arrested for this.

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, January 26, 2018 12:47 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

jesus christ.

they moved the victim and gave him a slap on the wrist. it's utter bullshit and defending it is unconscionable

it also shows a pattern of behaviour of shielding predators

she's been doing it since 1975. amazing that Kathy Shelton hasn't been mentioned yet.

Yep, they made him go to counseling then fired him when he did it again. What sucks is that you just know that there’s no way she’ll end up being arrested for this.

― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Friday, January 26, 2018 12:47 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

according to the NYT, they made him go to counseling, made the victim take a different job, and then *rehired* the guy five years later. i'm as sick of "hillary is the real villain" stuff as anyone but this is genuinely bad, and it's shitty to try to excuse it.

Seems horrible and self-serving and short sighted—what else is new?—but why would she be “arrested?”

Xpost No that’s fair. I was too reflexive. I’m sorry about that. He definitely should have been fired immediately.

Oh wait you were being sarcastic.