for a minor example, check out this thread.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 22:00 (six years ago) link
was this an intentional self-own of yourself 7 days ago?
I love both TNC and CTH, but the part where R.L. Stephens talk about how "black bodies" has become a pseudo-intellectual buzzword was OTM― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:38 AM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkhttp://i.imgur.com/zOi9gJH.jpg"Excuse me, but 'black bodies'? Isn't this just a buzzword that dumb white people use to sound woke?"― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 20, 2017 10:51 AM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:38 AM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
http://i.imgur.com/zOi9gJH.jpg
"Excuse me, but 'black bodies'? Isn't this just a buzzword that dumb white people use to sound woke?"
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, September 20, 2017 10:51 AM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― flopson, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 22:04 (six years ago) link
Those posts make the same point, just the latter is intended as a zing on Fredrick B
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 22:15 (six years ago) link
It's almost as if people are referencing the same book? Next up, have you noticed how people keep saying 'single payer', what's that all about?
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 22:34 (six years ago) link
(I'm not entirely sure we have the same interpretation of that character from the Simpsons, though)
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
xp but... nevermind
― flopson, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 22:36 (six years ago) link
'body' or 'bodies' is used 10 times in the first 5 pages of Between the World and Me.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 22:41 (six years ago) link
Yes, what could possibly be the difference between TNC saying it and Fredrick B saying it
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 23:04 (six years ago) link
Ilx's response to fred is derision while its response to Coates is more
Ta-nehisi Coates: *breathes blackly*white liberal public intellectual: "here is my rebuttal to Coates' eloquent yet misguided breathing"— 🏅Yung Aegon🇳🇬 (@israelizreal) September 20, 2017
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 23:17 (six years ago) link
Everyone on ilx criticizes everything. That's what this website is for. It was created by and for critics.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 23:48 (six years ago) link
Criticism is engagement and the opposite of dismissal.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 23:49 (six years ago) link
You yourself are a professional critic.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 23:50 (six years ago) link
In this case I think Fred made some good points, using poorly chosen words, about how Coates's writing tries to describe how lived experience -- the experience of racism and betrayal -- makes it hard to trust any kind of political metanarrative, especially hopeful ones. And maybe the breathless analysis of Trump's voters is rooted in a kind of hope Coates doesn't buy into because it implicitly suggests that there is a way to change these reactionary white voters and history doesn't bear that out. I think that's a powerful argument, if bleak. I don't think anyone was even really dismissing this, the crux of Coates's piece, they were grappling with it. It was a provocative article and it provoked people.
― Treeship, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 23:56 (six years ago) link
If you aren't black, best you can do is take his word on black experience. Even those South Park fucks figured that one out. Aren't you all smarter than those South Park guys?
Say you're a white nerd from the upper middle class, how would you expect, say, a braindead working class sentient garbage pile to understand you? There's a puzzler for you.
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 21 September 2017 00:00 (six years ago) link
omg Block Poster so good
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 21 September 2017 00:01 (six years ago) link
The truth hurts, baby
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 21 September 2017 00:03 (six years ago) link
I love it, I always wanted to be one of those THE_TRUTH poster dudes
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 21 September 2017 00:04 (six years ago) link
we need to lower the FP threshold on the count of less people posting to ilx so we can ban tweedledee & tweedledum more often
― flopson, Thursday, 21 September 2017 00:10 (six years ago) link
All you'll have left are a bunch of creepy sociopaths, then
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 21 September 2017 00:11 (six years ago) link
Oh yeah, I was specifically calling out flopson here on that one
― carpet_kaiser, Thursday, 21 September 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
Just realised there's no flag post on flagging ironically
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 21 September 2017 02:53 (six years ago) link
Join us flopson join us
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Thursday, 21 September 2017 07:30 (six years ago) link
It's absolutely fascinating the ways Treeship still doesn't get it, but I guess it would be a waste of time to explain it again.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 21 September 2017 12:42 (six years ago) link
The crux of the argument is that black lives are worth too much to wager on hope in white progress. In all honesty, the bleakness of that is inversely proportionate to the value you ascribe black lives. So it really doesn't have to be bleak at all.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 21 September 2017 12:44 (six years ago) link
i think you should probably accept that not everyone is going to see eye to eye on every issue
― k3vin k., Thursday, 21 September 2017 13:10 (six years ago) link
That is of course true, and where both Baldwin and Coates ends up.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 21 September 2017 13:30 (six years ago) link
Shorter Coates: not everyone sees eye to eye.
― Moodles, Thursday, 21 September 2017 13:35 (six years ago) link
...so don't waste your time on convincing white people.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 21 September 2017 14:15 (six years ago) link
Which I guess since I'm a Danish writer, meaning basically all my readership is white, is a fairly bleak conclusion for me :(
― Frederik B, Thursday, 21 September 2017 14:16 (six years ago) link
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/07/17/article-0-1FB9A59400000578-548_634x501.jpg
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Thursday, 21 September 2017 14:32 (six years ago) link
LOL, Fred you're ok, but I think you are exhausting everyone over minor differences of opinion. By this point we all understand your point of view, and many of us agree with you, but the conversation has stretched well beyond the point of usefulness.
― Moodles, Thursday, 21 September 2017 15:07 (six years ago) link
I think this discussion is at an impasse.
― El Tomboto, Sunday, September 17, 2017 11:50 AM (four days ago)
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 21 September 2017 21:18 (six years ago) link
don't waste your time on convincing white people.
This was Malcolm X's basic argument, too.
As I understand it, this position is not the same as giving up on all white people. Those whites who are able and willing to understand will do so and it's fine if they try to persuade other white people. But trying to win over whites isn't an especially productive use of the political or economic energies of American blacks, compared to, say, organizing.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 22 September 2017 03:19 (six years ago) link
I kind of lost the thread of this argument a while ago but the only thing I really want to say is that I think electoral politics and eradicating white supremacy are very different things and shouldn't be confused. As such, there's a huge difference between what it would have taken to convince some trump supporters not to vote for him -- a fairly small number in a few key states really - vs what it takes to fight white supremacy. And I just hope people don't give up on the former because the latter is so hard, because there's still a lot of good you can do just by making sure Trumps aren't in office and better people are in office, even if that doesn't actually dislodge racist attitudes from people's hearts. I just think they're two different fights, both important but with not necessarily a lot of overlap, and what I find frustrating is the attitude I see a lot that we should just give up on this big subgroup of often former democratic voters out of generalized moral spite. I don't think anyone should do what Lilla suggests and deemphasize "identity politics" or whatever, but I also think it's possible to bring some of those voters in with an economic message that, as it just so happens, could also help turn out more people of color to vote. Like, we already know that there were two-time Obama voters who voted for Trump. That doesn't make those people *not racist*, it just makes them votes that the Democratic party could again win.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 22 September 2017 03:47 (six years ago) link
― A is for (Aimless), 22. september 2017 05:19 (nine hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
It's probably has a lot to do with me being white, but for me some of the most wrenching parts of The Fire Next Time is when Baldwin wrestles with this. That he doesn't want to hate white people, don't want anyone to hate white people, want to get rid of segregation, but for example when he goes to visit Elijah Muhammad realizes he basically can't find any evidence against anything they say.
― Frederik B, Friday, 22 September 2017 12:35 (six years ago) link
Wait you're not even black danish
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Friday, 22 September 2017 12:45 (six years ago) link
It's probably has a lot to do with me being white, but
New board description
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 22 September 2017 13:45 (six years ago) link
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Friday, September 22, 2017 6:45 AM (twelve hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
lmao
― sleepingbag, Saturday, 23 September 2017 00:49 (six years ago) link
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:47 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Zzz
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 September 2017 02:11 (six years ago) link
too cool to win, too woke for votes
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 24 September 2017 02:20 (six years ago) link
Too dumb to argue with
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 September 2017 07:15 (six years ago) link
You'd think that it was the left who was stoking people's racial resentments in this football bullshit the way you talk. Or that the responsible thing to do would be to find some middle ground not to alienate ppl, to compromise and say "well we should respect the flag..." sure sometimes people are trying to be cool (?!?!?!) by being against racism but most of the time I'm going to go ahead and say it's the only moral choice available so you're not a complete shithead but focus on "electoral politics" and act like trump isn't just playing people like you.
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 September 2017 17:42 (six years ago) link
As such, there's a huge difference between what it would have taken to convince some trump supporters not to vote for him -- a fairly small number in a few key states really - vs what it takes to fight white supremacy.
These aren't different fights, they're all interrelated and overlapping, especially when the candidate you're righting against is making *explicit racist appeals.*
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 September 2017 17:44 (six years ago) link
I'm really glad my old thread has become an asshole test that everyone failed
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:26 (six years ago) link
Some recent posters have rather excelled tbh
― passé aggresif (darraghmac), Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:28 (six years ago) link
come on. he's making an insanely shallow argument.
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:36 (six years ago) link
And your deep response was "zzz" iirc
― El Tomboto, Sunday, 24 September 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
exhibit a: why ilx can’t have nice things
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 24 September 2017 19:33 (six years ago) link
― El Tomboto, Sunday, September 24, 2017 1:54 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
because of how absurd even taking it seriously would be, although i gave in a few hours later
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Sunday, 24 September 2017 20:56 (six years ago) link
god damn look at all the 'BOTH sides are wrong' grown ups in the room