Ta-Nehisi Coates Rules, The Thread

I didn't find LDR's thread particularly pithy esp by twitter standards

I can grasp how to build class solidarity but not racial solidarity

"wokefully" is the ILX word of the day imho

lol I'm not singling you out @suzy I've been making this point throughout the thread.

And I don't know what your personal history with class has to do w anything, I'm just saying "working class people need to get it together" is just reinforcing the same dynamic you claimed to want to dismantle seconds before

You're still misquoting, just STOP ALREADY.

Working people need to figure out how to do solidarity or we are fuuuuuuuuucked.

??????

I can grasp how to build class solidarity but not racial solidarity

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), 9. september 2017 22:22 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That might say more about you than about the two problems?

That seemed a bit accusatory. I definitely don't mean to imply that you're racist or something. Just that I can see several historical instances where a lot of racial solidarity was build.

Good work everyone ok let's pick it up again here tomorrow

I just wanted to point out that Joy Reid's piece is making exactly the same types of points as Coates' essay and the people criticizing it appear to have skim read for pull quotes they could misunderstand so they could put the uppity negress with the fancy degree back in her place.

IMO, That's what everyone has been doing to everyone else since Her tweeted about Verrit and it's al devolved into a sticky miasma of being completely pissed off at all the wrong people.

I must confess to having zero to say about the following un-useful things:

Verrit
Chapo Trap House
Relitigating 2016
Hillary/Bernie

....because I've had it with Left-on-Left aggro, since there are larger battles to pursue and a more relevant enemy to set myself against.

i suppose Teh Discourse was bad this week, but I've been p heartened by signs that irl politics are getting past 2016; Harris and Warren jumping on Bernie single payer and the left cutting Harris slack for having been a prosecutor as she adopts more left policies. like this guy ('which city does Adam Johnson live in again? NYC har har') was one of the worst sanctimonious Bernie ppl during the primary and,

she's acting like someone who a) can read the writing on the wall RE dem base b) not hung up on intraleft 2016 relitigation c) will win nom https://t.co/OKgyXmWKSB

— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) September 9, 2017

imo for a black woman to beat trump and enact single payer is basically the only path to redemption left for America, after Trump

i like RL's writing on other stuff (and his DSA plank is sure better than the one that's all white dudes lol) but his critiques of TNC seem like some shit you would write in an comparative lit MA. fuck outta here with that imo. literary theory in left infighting operationalized as bitchmode petty sniping seems dated, from a time when the left had way less potential for power, like 80s or 90s...but the rest of his writing is much more substantive about left strategy & big picture policy:

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/07/housing-poverty-freddie-gray-racism-black-panther-party-baltimore

https://jacobinmag.com/2017/06/walter-scott-police-killing-michael-slager-race-class

yeah I have noticed a significant easing up on Harris this week

https://theoutline.com/post/2213/the-progressive-potential-of-kamala-harris

it's good

imo for a black woman to beat trump and enact single payer is basically the only path to redemption left for America, after Trump

It would be a beautiful thing.

I've had it with Left-on-Left aggro, since there are larger battles to pursue and a more relevant enemy

otm. too much 'lefty discourse' comes off as nerds jockeying with other nerds to sit at the cool kids' table imho

medicare for all. free public college tuition. reparations for african-americans fucked over for centuries. pay for it with tax hikes on trustafarians. rich people don't deserve their cool kid table. their parents bought them seats there, and seriously, fuck all of them. call me crazy but i feel a lot less sympathy for some poor little rich person who might have to pay higher taxes than i do for a poor kid who has no chance because the US is pretty much a neo-feudal pyramid scheme at this point

medicare for all. free public college tuition. reparations for african-americans fucked over for centuries. pay for it with tax hikes on trustafarians. rich people don't deserve their cool kid table

you just summed up the demands of the vast majority of left twitter, short of "nationalize the major tech companies" and "abolish the prison-industrial complex"

It's amazing how the centrists are in denial about the necessity of all those things.

Anyone who claims to GAF about race issues wants big changes to crime and punishment - private prisons are enslavement.

http://www.theroot.com/study-a-picture-of-a-black-person-can-anger-trump-supp-1802753905

I love Michael Harriot

once again i feel like this is missing the point dramatically

https://www.viewpointmag.com/2017/09/11/idylls-of-the-liberal-the-american-dreams-of-mark-lilla-and-ta-nehisi-coates/

tapped out of that real early, it's awfully written

yeah, the author sets up this extended Games of Thrones/fantasy metaphor and then says someone should tell TNC this isn't 5th century Europe as though he was the one spinning this bullshit.

I tapped out when I saw how long it was tbh

I read the opening paragraphs and thought "this person understands neither metaphor nor the arguments he is attempting to refute".

yeah, the author sets up this extended Games of Thrones/fantasy metaphor and then says someone should tell TNC this isn't 5th century Europe as though he was the one spinning this bullshit.

tapped out halfway thru this description

A little OT, but I'm increasingly annoyed that Mark Lilla's stupid ideas are being treated by many people as "what liberals think". I suspect there's a very large portion of liberals that don't wish to he associated with him in any way.

another reason I didn't get into this piece is I earnestly have no fucking idea who Mark Lilla is

He's the guy leading the charge for liberals to drop identity politics

This article is trying to chart a path between Coates and lilla but the comparison between the two is insanely facile. I have yet to read a piece by a socialist writer as convincing or persuasive as Coates's. Part of why his writing is so good is because he's just better at putting together history in a transparently ideological way, and these goofs are writing really mediocre responses. I don't know that Coates is 100% right but I can't help but feel like people are tweeting that these essays are great less because they are than because they need someone to reaffirm their overly optimistic world views

well and also they don't like talking about race because it makes them feel funny in a bad way and not in a 'dick and rap jokes on a podcast' way

From the little I've read that response is not as good as that twitter thread but Coates isn't strictly a socialist writer (its probably why he is so good lol), the focus is much narrower, for one.

I saw another reponse piece earlier that seemed to focus on the supposed attack by Coates on Sanders but he does understand the thin line that politicians in these systems have to walk:

One can, to some extent, understand politicians’ embracing a self-serving identity politics. Candidates for high office, such as Sanders, have to cobble together a coalition. The white working class is seen, understandably, as a large cache of potential votes, and capturing these votes requires eliding uncomfortable truths.

Actions -- the way a candidate votes in office, what they do when they get there -- is ultimately what counts. If Obama could've stood for re-election and beaten Trump he would've funded weapons for Saudi. He wouldn't have made as big a deal of it, and perhaps not visited in the way Trump did, but the outcomes for Yemen would've been the same.

So in this hypothetical situation, how would you vote?

Or, more importantly, is there a viable candidate that doesn't have some disqualifying factor that would keep you from voting for them?

Obama in that scenario. TNC would clearly vote Sanders (and I suppose voted for Hilary).

My point is more around presidency, white or black, has its many faults, all to be fought against.

Obama visited Saudi Arabia four times, btw. I don't know why I think that is kinda funny, but I do.

well and also they don't like talking about race because it makes them feel funny in a bad way and not in a 'dick and rap jokes on a podcast' way

Yeah, that dick and rap jokes podcast definitely never ever talks about race.

Those three white guys are so good on race

My point is more around presidency, white or black, has its many faults, all to be fought against.

yes, every president has done more than their share of questionable things, they should be called out whenever they can be. But the fact remains, whatever bad things happened on Obama's watch, he also did a lot of good, and in many very specific and directed ways, the Trump admin has focused on rolling back many of those good things, and it is an undeniable fact that POC get hurt the most in the process. To me, that's a big part of Coates' argument, and enumerating all of Obama's flaws does not in any way contradict that argument or really address it at all.

this thread is comforting.

talking honestly about race is not the same as what those guys and their acolytes do.

Def psyched that the Ta Nahesi Coates thread is one more place on the internet where people can argue that a crowd-funded independent podcast needs to hire more POC.

Perhaps that crowd needs to be a bit more self-reflective regarding potential blind spots on the topic.

are we talking about the chompo tap house guys

yes and I have no idea why, nor how their POC guests would feel about being accused of not knowing how to address race

but my recommendation/request would be to not do this in the TNC thread

when CTH had a POC guest on to talk about TNC, the boys mostly hung back and snickered until they sprang forth and the end with great critiques like how libs love BTWAM the way they love "Hamilton".

lol i actually listened to that episode. it was awful

anyway yeah maybe save it for the chapo thread