Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

hosts of CTH are not bullies.

I don't like them but I don't agree with that.

They are a backlash to a liberal establishment that had become too scolding, moralistic, and obsessed with cultural issues.

They're popular because people are mad at this establishment for failing to stop Trump, perhaps the most disgusting person to ever seek the presidency.

I think they fall short because they are only increasing the false divisions between people concerned with economic issues and those concerned with ending discrimination of all forms. These goals are related, not opposed, a fact that is obscured as long as liberals and "bernie bros" go meaninglessly back and forth about petty shit that had more to do with social media than American politics.

― Treeship, Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:48 AM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think the "cultural issues" thing as a some sort of dividing line between bernie bros and centrists is a bit of a canard. the chapo/bernie bros criticism is generally that a) wokeness of many centrist libs, especially on twitter, is glib and insubstantial and b) focusing on economic issues helps all marginalized groups

Is there a new book/article or did the internet detectives finally figure out Matt Taibbi is *that* Matt Taibbi?

I read a bunch of exile stuff years ago, and there's no way I'd want to read it now as an adult in my 30s, but Taibbi's writing after his return to the US seemed like a clean break from that execrable shit and I've read it without character judgments on his past, just taking the writing as-is.

as far as podcasts in the political vein go, I haven't had a chance to check this out but am surprised it hasn't been mentioned:
https://www.patreon.com/tarfureport

it was mentioned elsewhere on ilx (on the thread about matt taibbi i guess).

i wouldn't listen to a matt taibbi podcast because he's matt taibbi

ah, forgot that thread was there

wokeness of many centrist libs... is glib and insubstantial and focusing on economic issues helps all marginalized groups

otm

What do they care? They don't have any alternative ideas or guiding philosophy behind that criticism ... they just look for little things to attack and criticize. It's glib and insubstantial, too.

yeah exactly, it's so disingenuous and calculated. and no, CTH hosts are not bullies like Trump is a bully. making fun of Ben Shapiro's height or Mike Cernovich's lisp? well, that's fine with me...

What do they care? They don't have any alternative ideas or guiding philosophy behind that criticism ... they just look for little things to attack and criticize. It's glib and insubstantial, too.

― carpet_kaiser, Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:10 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

they care because this putative intersectional liberalism is the main content of many of these peoples politics, and the basis of their claim to be the legitimate representatives of the marginalized and "the left".

They don't have any alternative ideas or guiding philosophy behind that criticism

uh... i think "focusing on economic issues helps all marginalized groups" is an alternative and legitimate idea

xxp

I first knew Chapo from their gang clowning of Arthur Chu on Twitter, that lasted months. Arthur Chu seemed like a tool, but other than the delight in tormenting the guy, not sure what that has to do with their better alternative to the Democrats and libs.

And yeah, like they give a flying fuck about helping marginalized groups. What history do they have with that? Picking on vulnerable weirdos on Twitter?

Entertainers, fine. The whole Chapo/DSA thing is utter horseshit. Talk about poisoning the well.

Arthur Chu is a sociopath, he's not a "vulnerable weirdo." http://theralphretort.com/it-ends-tonight-arthur-chus-wife-dumps-him-has-marriage-dissolved-11014016/

Alright, he seems like a creep, but my point still stands. Blood tastes the same no matter who it's coming from.

Blood tastes the same no matter who it's coming from.

what

let's not rely too heavily on low rent gamergate websites

I haven't paid attention v closely but it's weird how Arthur Chu went from "adorable weirdo" on the Jeopardy thread to persona non grata on every other thread in the space of like 18 months

xp. chapo are entertainers. the podcast is not politics, it's not substantial, it's for you to have a laugh at if you're on the left and dislike centrists and the right. no-one itt is under any illusion about that.

i think their most substantive/worthwhile episodes are when they have a guest talking about important stuff in a knowledgable way, i.e. Tim Faust talking about healthcare. but those are little interludes in a sea of irreverent and, depending on your viewpoint, dumb ribbing on NYT columnists and the like.

let's not rely too heavily on low rent gamergate websites

― goole, Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:23 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

agreed, but all you need to read are his ex-wife's tweets, which are included in the piece.

lol yeah

arthur chu, as catalogued elsewhere on ilx, is prime candidate for somewhat reasonable person who decided to parlay a small amount of fame into a twitter/writing career and is now hopelessly tweeting his way into a hole in the ground while hitting every rock on the way down
twitter addiction justified by it being your "job" to tweet

Also: poisoning Wells is goodd. Fuck wells.

the lol was to goole's comment about that site's provenance

icking on vulnerable weirdos on Twitter?

First they came for the Ben Shapiros and I said nothing

Then they came for the Eichenwalds and I said nothing, and went back to looking at hentai.

Who exactly are their better alternatives? Them? That's convenient. What better vision do they have beyond "winning" "bigly"? They're entertainers who wear a mantle of being a movement, and are doing damage to the cause they're co-opting.

literally everything in that post is beyond dumb

Must be if you simply say so

Are you Caleb?

Yup, I am whatever bad thing you want me to be today

Who exactly are their better alternatives?

Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn, Keith Ellison.

What better vision do they have beyond "winning" "bigly"?

Single payer universal healthcare and a reinvigorated labor movement.

They should add Matt's "this podcast doesn't count as 'doing politics'" line to the start of every episode as a disclaimer to maybe forestall some of the thinkpiece deluge

nothing leftists do counts as 'doing politics'

what?

carpet_kaiser reminds me of all the 'mainstream' Dems who respond to criticism of Clintons/Obama by asking for a detailed agenda for when I am president

They're clearly carpetbaggers who jumped on the tweeting, podcasting and being socialists $$$ train.

idg the line that chapo isn't politics. i mean yeah it's not organizing nor electioneering nor thinktanking (or maybe...) but it's not not politics.

yeah, it's communications.

i think their point is that sitting there listening doesn't count as doing something

someone should tell them they're like the cnn classic crossfire but without dissenting opinions :)

carpet_kaiser reminds me of all the 'mainstream' Dems who respond to criticism of Clintons/Obama by asking for a detailed agenda for when I am president

Yeah, this doesn't even come close to what I believe.

chu went from Good to Bad for tragic unselfawareness, repeated tryhard assertions about homosexuality, and zealous defense of hillary clinton. i'd seen the tweets from his poor ex wife before but i try not to over-interpret people's private lives. calling him a sociopath is a bit much; people throw that around too much imo.

Reminded how Jon Stewart also always felt compelled to jump back to "Hey look I'm just a comedian".

They should add Matt's "this podcast doesn't count as 'doing politics'" line to the start of every episode as a disclaimer to maybe forestall some of the thinkpiece deluge

This comes dangerously close to the late '00s Jon Stewart "I'm just a comedian," though - it needs to be clarified that podcasts and posting is not the end of politicking. Then they're no better than the libs who think resistance is buying from Starbucks because the CEO was going to be in Hillary's cabinet.

Which, to be fair, Matt at least has been heavily involved with his local DSA.

honestly the worst casualty of the left-liberal war has been amanda marcotte, who's become shockingly dishonest and disningenuous

imo Chu went bad from being extremely online to the extent it was his job, his hobby, and his only personal relationship (to the detriment of his marriage)

he had some amazingly bad takes, but if you looked at his twitter feed, he was coming up with a take on _every news item_ to the extent he tweets or retweets nearly constantly twenty hours per day. it's not the incredibly bad takes that are notable to me, it's the fact he churns out four or five takes per hour -- most are just mundane or irrelevant

marcotte is kind of the opposite, one incredibly hot take per column

xxxp yeah they're all involved with DSA organizing and marching

yeah mh i think that's right. twitter is bad for the ol' brain-o

that extremely lucrative career choice, professional socialist

I was much happier when I thought that Chapo Trap House was the name of some wacky new genre of music.