― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:06 (twenty years ago) link
― the river fleet, Monday, 26 January 2004 19:07 (twenty years ago) link
Some pits are ill tempered, some aren't - like a lot of people. You may say that not many people have mauled other people, but well, you'd be wrong there, too. I have a 6 year old son and two pit-mixes - who are the most gentle, goofiest dogs I have ever encountered. (And I've had lots of dogs). Sure pits have a terrible reputation, and I admit that when my ex picked the first one out of the pound, I said no fucking way, but with the right training, guidance and love, they're just amazing dogs.
(The only dog I have ever been bitten by was a chow).
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:07 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:08 (twenty years ago) link
(major xpost)
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:11 (twenty years ago) link
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:15 (twenty years ago) link
Listen, I'm sure most Pit-bulls are very sweet. But yeah, jerks who want to be tough/look tough adopt them and have those awful chains on them and then walk them on the street and scare the sh*t out of people. So, I automatically think they're awful. If I were choosing a dog, I'd rule out pit-bulls automatically because I don't want to be associated with that kind of ego/sadism. I'm sure pit-bull owners are aware of the stigma they're attaching to themselves and I guess it's a testament to the animals that they're willing to endure that.
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:15 (twenty years ago) link
Results 1 - 10 of about 17,000
I rest my case. (OK, a lot of that is actually stuff about the Queen, but still.)
― the river fleet, Monday, 26 January 2004 19:17 (twenty years ago) link
Bull terriers, on the other hand, rock. They're generally very nice and really cool looking. I'm glad that target has brought them back into fashion to obliterate the memory of Spuds.
― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:27 (twenty years ago) link
― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:29 (twenty years ago) link
A: First it is important to know that Staffordshire Terrier and Pit Bull are not official breeds. They are common terms used to describe a certain type of dog. There are actually three breeds that can be easily confused. The correct designations are:
The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT) - Recognized by the ADBA and UKCThe American Staffordshire Terrier (AmStaff or AST) - Recognized by the AKCThe Staffordshire Bull Terrier (StaffyBull or SBT) - Recognized by the AKC
They are essentially the same dogs but have been bred for a different purpose and/or size standard since the mid 30's. Some are even duel registered. Pete the Pup from "The little Rascals" was among the first APBTs to be registered with the AKC as an Amstaff.
How can we make the difference? We can't really. We can only try to guess the breed based on some very subtle factors that may differentiate them. Note that even experts can't always tell if a Pit Bull is an APBT, an AST or a SBT
The American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT)The APBT is bred for performance above everything else. The breeders usually focus on the working aspect of the breed, and unfortunately for many breeders that means specifically pit fighting. Therefor, many APBTs are bred primarily for their fighting abilities and for certain physical characteristics that will ensure good performance in the pit (mouth, air, stamina, etc.). Some are also bred for the characteristic called gameness.
Because performance is the most important trait, less consideration is given to conformation (this refers to how closely the dog matches a set physical standard for the breed). You may see APBTs as little as 30 Lbs and as big as 100 Lbs. In general though, the APBTs bred for the pit are usually less than 70 Lbs.
Not all APBT breeders breed for the pit. Some breed for conformation, temperament, weight-pulling, obedience trials, therapy work, etc. The foundation of their bloodlines however, has most likely been tested in the pit and kept the physical and mental characteristics of the pit dogs; Lean and athletic body, agility, intensity, drive, etc.
Cropped ears are not an indicator of the dog's background. Some dogs bred for the pit have cropped ears, some don't. Show dogs often have cropped ears, both with the APBT and the AST, but not always. Some dog fighters prefer cropped ears, some don't.
Today, you will find that a lot of people are breeding Pit Bulls for nothing in particular, or just to be pets, or for protection, or to make a quick buck. In general, these dogs are a little larger than the original APBT. Most of them have stable disposition and make excellent companions. Unfortunately some backyard bred dogs may be born with terrible temperament and human-aggressive tendencies because unknowledgeable individuals who don't make temperament a priority, are allowed to breed dogs. This is true of any breeds by the way, not just the APBT.
The American Staffordshire Terrier (AmStaff)The AmStaff (or AST) used to be the same dog as the APBT but was taken out of the pit in the mid 30s. AKC opened its stud books to a few APBTs that fit a standard they had chosen, and came up with the name Staffordshire Terrier. In early 1970s the name was changed to American Staffordshire Terrier, to avoid any confusion with a breed called "Staffordshire Bull Terrier" from England that was also recognized by the AKC.
AmStaffs are now primarily bred for conformation and temperament. They have a set height standard and usually weigh between 50-80 Lbs. They may be a little stockier than the APBT, but not always.
Since they share the same ancestors as the APBT (some are even dual registered), AST and APBT not only share the same look, they also have similar personalities. Dog-aggression is a potential trait in both breeds although not as strong and common in the AST than its close cousin the APBT. AmStaffs are very dominant dogs though, and just like the APBT they often have a threatening and intimidating look. That look and dominant attitude could trigger an hostile reaction from other dogs and result in a fight.
Staffordshire Bull Terrier (Stafford, Staffies or SBT)Staffies are a little less common in the U.S. but remain very popular in England. They also share the same ancestors as the APBT and AST. They are much smaller though, about 15 to 40 Lbs max and their ears are rarely cropped. They are essentially bred for good disposition and conformation. They are often referred to as "nanny dogs" because they are excellent with children. Some people still use them in the pit in certain countries, but rarely in North America since they are so rare to obtain.
Q: I heard that Pit Bulls were not good with children, is it true?
Most Pit Bulls are excellent with children. Since they were bred to perform in the pit, they have a high tolerance for pain, and in general will patiently endure the "abuse" young kids unintentionally dish out. However like any large, powerful dog, they must be supervised with kids at all times.
Pit Bulls are enthusiastic and strong, and can easily knock over an unsteady toddler with their wagging tails. They can be quite rambunctious until they mature, which is around 2-4 years of age. Pit Bulls should be taught to play gently, not jump on people, to sit and wait for a signal before going through doors, etc. Positive training methods work best.
Adding a juvenile Pit Bull to a home with toddlers or very young children may not be ideal since the dogs are very energetic at that age. You may want to consider adopting a mature Pit Bull instead, that has proven himself with children. It is possible to have a young dog with toddlers or infants, but you must be diligent with your supervision. Pit Bulls are great playmates for older, respectful kids.
Q: Our neighbors bought a Pit Bull and now we are scared to let the kids play outside. Are these dogs really mean and vicious like the media portrays them?
A: Most Pit Bulls are NOT human aggressive. In a large number of cases, when a Pit Bull attacks a human, it has been trained to be aggressive towards people, most likely abused, and/or seriously deprived of socialization with humans. Those dogs are usually in the hands of uncaring and irresponsible owners who own them for the wrong reasons.
Any large dog should be supervised around children, and Pit Bull dogs are no exception. They can be rambunctious and play with a lot of intensity. Pit bulls can be animal-aggressive, and should be controlled around other pets, but human-aggression is NOT a normal trait of the breed.
You should evaluate the dog on its own merits, not just that it is a Pit Bull. Most veterinarians will tell you that Pit Bulls are very nice dogs, and not a danger in most cases. Owner responsibility, however, is a must with ANY large and powerful dog and all canines should be well-socialized with adults and kids.
Pit Bulls face prejudice and misunderstanding from many people who do not understand them very well, so ownership requires a willingness to consider your neighbors' fears, and educate them about the dog. The largest issue is to know the owners keep the dog as a pet, give it lots of love, and every opportunities to be around humans. The dog should not be chained outside alone and without the chance to interact with humans.
Etc, et al.
http://www.pbrc.net/info.html
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:32 (twenty years ago) link
In all honesty, the dogs that NEVER made a move on me at all were the German Shepards and the Rotts. I am pretty sure she's had a doberman too and that never bothered me. The poodle and the chihuahuas are mean motherfuckers!
FWIW the worst animal scar I am still carrying came from a FERRET.
― Allyzay, Monday, 26 January 2004 19:32 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:33 (twenty years ago) link
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:33 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:34 (twenty years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:34 (twenty years ago) link
I reiterate: the worst scarrings I've ever received were from an English bulldog and a ferret.
― Allyzay, Monday, 26 January 2004 19:36 (twenty years ago) link
And if you don't know how I could have them near my son, clearly you haven't spent any time with them. They are, once again, the goofiest, most gentle dogs I have ever known.
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:37 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:39 (twenty years ago) link
http://staff.washington.edu/timk/wildlife/mammal/white_cheeked/gibbon03.jpg
― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:39 (twenty years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:40 (twenty years ago) link
etc.
― Allyzay, Monday, 26 January 2004 19:41 (twenty years ago) link
― dyson (dyson), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:43 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:44 (twenty years ago) link
Yeah, there have been a lot of pit bull attacks, and they have been vicious - I'm not denying that - however, the deed should be judged, not the breed. One attacks someone, so they all should be condemned? Okay, so by that logic, white men have raped and murdered people, so all white men should be condemned. While we're at it, let's throw in black men, asian men, white women, asian woman, black women, etc. In fact, the entire planet can't be trusted!
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:45 (twenty years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:47 (twenty years ago) link
i love rottweilers. they have a lot of the same baggage as pit bulls, but the ones i've known have been amazingly kind, affectionate, and obedient.
(xpost)
hahahaha. yay ally.
― lauren (laurenp), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link
The pitbulls, and bull terriers, I've known have never been anything but well-behaved and friendly. Plus bull terriers are supercute, with their little albino faces, awwwwww.
― cis (cis), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:48 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.osric.com/~jeremy/weekend/2.jpg
here he is savagely attacking some other friends whilst i was interviewing them:
http://www.osric.com/~jeremy/weekend/8.jpg
― Huggy Dork (Kingfish), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:49 (twenty years ago) link
Seriously, people: you've got several pit bull owners on this thread explaining themselves, posting links, etc. The response they are getting is, in short, "You are an unfit human being and you disgust me". This is the most asinine bullshit I've ever read.
bnw was OTM waaaaay upthread vis a vis overblown reporting.
dyson, I'm sorry you got bit by a fucking pit bull but get over it, I've been bit by a whole helluva lot of dogs and I'm not going to blame the entire breeds, or species for that matter, for this. Hell, half of it I'd blame myself.
xpost properly bred and treated rotts and german shepards and the absolute nicest, sweetest animals I've ever encountered in my entire life. They are like enormous puppy dogs. I standfast by my assertion that smaller dogs are actually more likely to be vicious--short man syndrome, if you will. In my EXTREMELY LARGE experience with dogs, this has been the case.
― Allyzay, Monday, 26 January 2004 19:50 (twenty years ago) link
― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago) link
also, I'm giggling at this thought: Vicious St Bernard Attack!
Clearly we should put little booze casks around the necks of Pit-Bulls! Hell we should do that with our children!
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:53 (twenty years ago) link
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:54 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:55 (twenty years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:56 (twenty years ago) link
― oops (Oops), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:57 (twenty years ago) link
And hey! Dalmations have an awful rep, though it is somewhat deserved. They are incredibly loyal animals, but very protective. ('ve had several and never had a problem myself, but they have gone for and tried to attack strangers and even friends - anyone that they thought was harming me (including a couple of unlucky boyfriends).
― the river fleet, Monday, 26 January 2004 19:57 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/frenchbulldog/pics/frenchies2.jpg
eeeeeeeeeee!!!!!
― Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:58 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.leerburg.com/Photos/933.jpg
― bnw (bnw), Monday, 26 January 2004 19:58 (twenty years ago) link
― Huggy Dork (Kingfish), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:00 (twenty years ago) link
― cis (cis), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:03 (twenty years ago) link
― the river fleet, Monday, 26 January 2004 20:11 (twenty years ago) link
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:12 (twenty years ago) link
― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:14 (twenty years ago) link
― luna (luna.c), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:14 (twenty years ago) link
http://www.amstaff-pitbull.com/images/photos%20chiens/pitbull/armee.gif
― Kerry (dymaxia), Monday, 26 January 2004 20:17 (twenty years ago) link