I have to admit that I would be v curious to see a Dennis Wilson character in this - the Two Lane Blacktop connection might make it irresistable for QT
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:21 (six years ago) link
(xpost) Mountains of exploitation to be sure, but I wouldn't call the Jeff Guinn book exploitative (or, from whatever dim memory I have of it, Ed Sanders' book)--they were thoughtful attempts to try to extract some glimmer of understanding out of what happened, which is what I'd want from the thoughtful film that I think is there. Which is why, to me, Tarantino seems particularly ill-suited for this.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
Martha Marcy May Marlene was the perfect pseudo-Manson movie imo. Maintained just the right tone without veering into exploitation.
yeah but that movie is like...so good. kind of a miracle it got made at all
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:23 (six years ago) link
I love it! Probably among my top ten of the decade.
― Dippin' Sauce on my Nice New Slacks (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:25 (six years ago) link
Last year's Tower, about Charles Whitman's murders in 1966, might be instructive. The filmmaker's were clearly sensitive to making the film primarily about the victims, not Whitman. I think they leaned too far in that direction--I wanted to know more Whitman than they provided--but it was far from exploitative, and what happened there was arguably even more dumbfoundingly and terrifyingly random than with Manson.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:31 (six years ago) link
Martha Marcy May Marlene has been on my watchlist since forever, I should really get around to that
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:35 (six years ago) link
This really has nothing to do with Tarantino, but MMMM is one of the films that these three guys sort of make together, Sean Durkin, Antonio Campos and Josh Mond, and pretty much all their films are worthwhile. Simon Killer and James White are really good as well, and heard that Christine should be good too. Worth following what they do.
― Frederik B, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
tarantino might surprise me on this, i don't think he's incapable of it talent-wise. if it's going to be made, i'll withhold judgement. i suspect it'll be closer to "not good" than "great" but we'll see.
also Pinkerton's tweet is dumb.
― nomar, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
idk I wouldn't really expect historical veracity from QT so some kind of alternative/revisionism might make sense
would lol if movie ends with a race war
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:50 (six years ago) link
Or with the Beatles recording 'Helter Skelter'.
― Dippin' Sauce on my Nice New Slacks (Old Lunch), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:56 (six years ago) link
flash forward to Yoko hunting down and murdering Mark David Chapman
― nomar, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 19:58 (six years ago) link
Is the 1976 tv movie, Helter Skelter worth watching?
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:08 (six years ago) link
The guy who played Manson was good, that's all I remember about it.
― weird echo of the falsies (Tom D.), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:09 (six years ago) link
(xposts) Ditto. Arguing how it should be made, or who should make it, that's an interesting argument. Arguing that it shouldn't be made--that no one has a right to make it because the events were too traumatic--I don't get that at all.
― clemenza, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:13 PM (forty-one minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I don't think anyone here has made that argument. There have been some pretty good films about famous murders. In Cold Blood. Executioner's Song. There's just no evidence that Tarantino has the gravitas to treat it as anything more than an exercise in style w a "funny" wardrobe and choice tunes. Which yeah is kind of gross.
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:10 (six years ago) link
I saw Helter Skelter when it first aired (15 at the time), rewatched it a couple of years ago. I liked it better at 15, to put it charitably. Stephen Railsback does all right by Manson, but it's really a vanity project for Bugliosi, and they make things even worse with bad cover versions of the White Album.
If your argument is restricted to Tarantino, Hadrian, we're basically in agreement (although I'll still hope for the best).
― clemenza, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:13 (six years ago) link
Yeah would say I also don't wanna see Greg Araki do this.
Bugliosi is kind of insufferable.
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:18 (six years ago) link
Get Vincent Gallo and Lana Del Rey and have the resonances be weird.
― Eazy, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:23 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ifMbYfdTQ
this one is a really fascinating primary footage documentary. featuring all the original cult members and hangers on, seemingly given their chance to tell their side of the story. the girls are all sitting around with shotguns. there is another segment where they play some instrumental music for a while. this is actually the only Manson related film i've watched in its entirety.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:35 (six years ago) link
I am just as uninterested in the details of the Manson case (and always have been) as I am in any future films by the video-store dork.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:37 (six years ago) link
oh god, Eazy
― mh, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:38 (six years ago) link
I know, sounds terrible unless it's somehow not. Lohan too.
― Eazy, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:39 (six years ago) link
― nomar, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:58 PM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
fuck. yes.
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 20:44 (six years ago) link
I just watched that documentary that Adam linked to. Its pretty mindblowing. Cheers
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Wednesday, 12 July 2017 22:48 (six years ago) link
Me too! Full version (1:21) on YouTube. So surprised never to have seen any of that footage before considering how many times this story has been repackaged on TV. And seeing Squeaky Fromme hold forth like that just a couple years out from her G. Ford attempt. This provides a vastly more comprehensive picture of how many people got caught up in the family than than anything I've read or seen before, + how pervasively violent that scene was apart from the more notorious killings.
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 23:18 (six years ago) link
huh link wouldn't load for me, said it had been removed
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 23:19 (six years ago) link
^^ I got that (removed), too
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link
FYI Randy California estate I think the dudes who did the music for this nicked Spirit's Taurus, you shld lawyer up again
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 23:22 (six years ago) link
this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMo5jEnL5Ng&t=2s
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 23:24 (six years ago) link
Hrm not working here I watched via Roku
― Hadrian VIII, Wednesday, 12 July 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
Type in "Manson Family documentary" and you'll get a longer version (1:20) of the same thing.
― clemenza, Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:05 (six years ago) link
The longer version loads fine.
(Spirit really pick their enemies...)
― clemenza, Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:08 (six years ago) link
i am still holding out hope that this happens in real life
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:32 (six years ago) link
btw is there a consensus on the best book to read on the manson murders? i've somehow never read helter skelter -- assume that's a good place to start?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:33 (six years ago) link
yeah Bobby Beausoleil/Jimmy Page are one degree of (Kenneth Anger) separation, wiser probably to steer clear of these guys
― Hadrian VIII, Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:41 (six years ago) link
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:32 PM (thirteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
YES
― flappy bird, Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:46 (six years ago) link
― Eazy, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:23 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
otm
― johnny crunch, Thursday, 13 July 2017 00:57 (six years ago) link
J.D.: If you want just the murders, probably Helter Skelter or Ed Sanders' The Family. If you want a wider view of Manson's whole life, the book I mentioned a couple of times earlier, Jeff Guinn's Manson, is excellent. (I read Ed Sanders' Sharon Tate book last year and thought it was just okay.)
― clemenza, Thursday, 13 July 2017 01:10 (six years ago) link
Get Vincent Gallo and Lana Del Rey and have the resonances be weird.― Eazy, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:23 PM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Eazy, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:23 PM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
LDR revealed in the one interview she did for Honeymoon that she actually had been approached to play Sharon Tate in a movie, but iirc she turned it down for being too "On the nose" or something.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 13 July 2017 03:42 (six years ago) link
I get the feeling a big part of this film will swing on a debate re: the merits of Tate in Don't Make Waves vs. The Valley of The Dolls.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 13 July 2017 03:44 (six years ago) link
This is a really ill advised project and Quentin Tarantino sucks.
― Treeship, Thursday, 13 July 2017 03:46 (six years ago) link
This guy is nothing more than a culture fetishist. This is gross and I hope it bottoms out.― Hadrian VIII, Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:33 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Hadrian VIII, Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:33 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Correct
― Treeship, Thursday, 13 July 2017 03:47 (six years ago) link
I wish he'd just do another Elmore Leonard movie :/
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 July 2017 04:05 (six years ago) link
I think Longworth's podcast series underlined how much of an LA story the Manson Murders are: the habitual criminal with dreams of a rich easy life as a rockstar who tries to break into the music biz, ultimately rejected by the inner circle & then takes his horrific acid-fuelled revenge ... his pathetic motivations are pretty effectively buried under the flash-bang of his rhetoric & the entourage & the legitimately shocking, horrible murders
There's totally a Tarantino movie here.
or imo it could work in the way the Summer of Sam worked. It doesn't have to be ~about~ Manson directly
but i am also a qt apologist & true crime fan so obv my bias is distorting my judgement
― Yoni Loves Chocha (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 13 July 2017 04:18 (six years ago) link
― flappy bird, Thursday, 13 July 2017 05:00 (six years ago) link
Just watched the 1:20 Manson on youtube, I had seen some of the 3-girls-with-guns footage before, but didn't know there was this much of the family in general. And damned if I'm not now watching the ABC 20/20 doc from March of this year (also 1:20). It's actually very watchable, not sensationalized as much as I feared (no John Stossel). Long segment on Sharon Tate, and some more recent interviews with some of the involved parties.
― nickn, Thursday, 13 July 2017 05:17 (six years ago) link
he's a culture garbageman, just a foot fetishist
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 July 2017 11:16 (six years ago) link
taking that celebrity grade garbage to the dump where we hang out
― mh, Thursday, 13 July 2017 14:07 (six years ago) link
omg wait who is going to play Sharon
― surm, Thursday, 13 July 2017 14:09 (six years ago) link
surm... this could be your chance
― mh, Thursday, 13 July 2017 14:10 (six years ago) link
Uma Thurman + CGI
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 13 July 2017 14:10 (six years ago) link