a quick poll about Russia and Donald Trump

he is not responsible for his actions. it's the liberals' fault for playing 'where's the birth certificate?' with comrade combover

Clearly letting Russia wage cyber warfare unencumbered would be a much safer thing to do.

Also, fuck that sanctimonious asshole. He and other left-wing assholes were wrong throughout the election about Russian interference, and now they get to play 'told you so' because the thing is - predictably, I would say - backfiring for Russia? Fuck that shit.

and your shit

were wrong throughout the election about Russian interference

tell me exactly how it went down and Putin's role in it, Fred.

Morbs, do you even have any idea what Russia did in Crimea? They exploited internal unrest in a neighboring country - and no matter what you think of the Maidan uprising, which, yes, toppled a democratically elected government, it was an internal matter - to straight up invade and annex part of that country. The US hasn't done shit like that since, when? 1899-1902 in the Phillipines? It's not the US who is to blame for the worsening US-Russian relations, it just isn't.

i didnt say different now did i (tho u might wanna talk to Dominicans about '65, was it?)

who knew there was even one huge neolib jackass in Denmark, tho?

nice subject change too

This is the CrowdStrike analysis of the DNC hack back in June, that is, way before the DNC information was leaked: https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/ You can read the technical analysis there, Morbs. Nobody ever presented any convincing reason as to why not believe that analysis, and it turned out to have been spot on from the beginning. Voices on the left just for some stupid reason went 'WE DON'T KNOW! WE DON'T KNOW! LALALALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU'

I hate it when mom and dad fight

USA didn't annex the Dominican Republic, btw, and troops left the country after one year. If we're including stuff like that - which, yes, the US has done over and over - there are much more recent examples, up to and including Iraq, Libya, etc.

And if you didn't know there were neolib jackasses in Denmark, that just once again shows how ignorant you are about the world...

CrowdStrike was hired by the DNC and retracted much of their report, it seems

I love this emerging line. Trump gave the generals carte blanche to do whatever they want because: Daytime MSNBC. https://t.co/TdgsjHumie

— Charles Davis (@charliearchy) June 19, 2017

CrowdStrike was hired by the DNC and retracted much of their report, it seems

― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), 19. juni 2017 22:43 (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lol, who told you that, Breitbart?

iirc Crowdstrike partially retracted a botched report into supposed Russian of Ukrainian artillery tech but stands by the DNC report.

*hacking

frederik the good doctor is totally right to be a skeptic about american interventionism. even wikipedia agrees

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

still pretty mind-blowing that putin "allegedly" put donnie the wig up to treason though

Again, though, the US annexed neither Chile, Iran nor Nicaragua, and I'm beginning to be bewildered by the fact that people don't understand the difference... But yeah, those are more examples of American bullshit, and if we wanted to make a complete list, it would be horrifically long. I'm skeptical about interventionism, period. But the leftists who only think American interventionism is bad often strikes me as racist, plain and simple. To awfully many of them, only America and what America does matters.

It's like this ghoulish death cult where people in Pakistan only matter the moment they're killed by a drone.

american junior highs are emotional torture camps, frederik

“Spicer still can’t say whether POTUS believes in climate change. At off camera no audio briefing, Spicer took a question from a Russian reporter but not from CNN. Make no mistake about what we are all witnessing. This is a WH that is stonewalling the news media. Hiding behind no camera/no audio gaggles. There is a suppression of information going on at this WH that would not be tolerated at a city council mtg or press conf with a state gov.”

see if you can understand this, Fredzo: before i belief anything our mass-murdering, historically repugnant IC (or anyone who works for them, eg your lovers at CrowdStrike) has to say about anything, I want to read the primary documents.

Just fast forward to the part where you say it doesn't matter to you even if it's true.

Morbs, the link was to 'primary documents'. Though the term you're thinking of is 'primary sources'. Do you even understand what that means?

which fed bureaucracy do YOU work for, Nerdstrom? Lotsa things matter, like the cost of my cancer medicine.

bye bye

this is insanely fascinating

https://www.buzzfeed.com/heidiblake/from-russia-with-blood-14-suspected-hits-on-british-soil?utm_term=.uiv5dWBWWd#.lj3vRp6ppR

fake news!

I don't know if any of the details are remotely accurate in any of the 14 cases but they have massively fucked up the first major piece - on Matthew Puncher - and it trashes any credibility they might have had. It's one of the craziest things I have ever read.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/janebradley/scientist-who-helped-connect-litvinenkos-murder-to-the?utm_term=.wvZdOKobY#.qgVwlyrO2

This is extraordinary:

BuzzFeed News has now spoken with eight relatives and friends of Puncher who all said they were astonished by the suggestion that he was suicidal – but were never interviewed by police

His co-worker said that he was talking about committing suicide and his GP and wife both testified at the inquest he had tried to kill himself the previous week. At the point he died, he was signed off from work for that reason. The article refers to that, and doesn't challenge it.

Either the FSB nipped in and assassinated him literally days after the suicide attempt or he wasn't suicidal and his wife, doctor and colleagues are all part of the cover-up.

Buzzfeed seems obsessed with the idea that the British establishment is actively rigging inquests and investigations to 'keep the flow of Russian money coming to the UK' is ridiculous. The flow is because the UK is seen as a safe, stable place for wealthy Russian expats to settle. If they were turning a blind eye to them getting iced left, right and centre, it would knock that on the head.

Russian state actors definitely do order hits overseas but they tend to be in Turkey and Ukraine, and tend to be linked to Kadyrov's ongoing efforts to maintain his hold on Chechnya. They are presumably not as good for clicks, though.

*, which is ridiculous *

* so is dismissing all the other cases because there's one you can *

I am dismissing the first one they published and saying that releasing such a poor article up front damages the credibility of anything else that comes out of the series, irrespective of whether there is any truth in the subsequent ones. The source for all the stories is the same - the unnamed US security agents who gave them the dossier and are apparently of the belief puncher was murdered.

why do you suppose donald trump -- a complete asshole -- refuses to criticize, of all people, vladimir putin?

idk i mostly think it's interesting as an outline of the pathologies and activities of the global uber-rich

There are definitely some interesting books waiting to be written about that whole milleu but it's such a libel risk you'll probably have to wait until they're all dead. Which at this rate...

I don't particularly like saying it, but SV otm.

wonder why robert mueller hired elizabeth prelogar, harvard law grad, russian language expert, to join watergate ii

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/lawyer-with-expertise-in-russia-joins-fbi-probe-of-trump-connections/

starting to feel bad for donnie the wig. poor fella just wanted to pay off his debt($$$) :(

I have some hot takes about Mueller bringing on Andrew Weissman but thats for another thread

In May, Trump told NBC that he has no property or investments in Russia. "I am not involved in Russia," he said.

But that doesn't address national security and other problems that might arise for the president if Russia is involved in Trump, either through potentially compromising U.S. business relationships or through funds that flowed into his wallet years ago. In that context, a troubling history of Trump's dealings with Russians exists outside of Russia: in a dormant real-estate development firm, the Bayrock Group, which once operated just two floors beneath the president's own office in Trump Tower.

Bayrock partnered with the future president and his two eldest children, Donald Jr. and Ivanka, on a series of real-estate deals between 2002 and about 2011, the most prominent being the troubled Trump Soho hotel and condominium in Manhattan.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-21/trump-russia-and-those-shadowy-sater-deals-at-bayrock

"conservative" trolls are getting eerily quiet, even in yahoo comment sections

https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-concedes-russia-meddled-campaign-denies-changed-result-201048140.html

https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2017/06/25/foxs-brit-hume-even-if-trump-campaign-did-collude-russia-it-s-not-crime/217024

god this fucking "no evidence" shit - it's an ONGOING INVESTIGATION, any "evidence" won't be public until later you dipshit.

like learn your order of operations, conservative media.

(that was to Hume obv)

like if they were saying things like this to quiet overzealous liberals who already want Trump in jail, that'd be one thing, but they like T seem to be saying because no definitive evidence has been uncovered in the first third of an investigation (and even if it had, wouldn't be public until much later), the investigation should stop. that's...not how it works.

i hope this doesn't mean vlad's through with don

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/06/25/russia_recalls_ambassador_sergey_kislyak_who_is_at_center_of_trump_collusion.html

maybe they just need a new virus protection program

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/fbi-interviews-employees-russia-linked-cyber-security-firm-kaspersky-lab-n777571

. . . so . . . Putin controls the largest oil company in Russia. He made a $500 billion deal with the CEO of Exxon Mobil. Obama put sanctions in place which stopped that deal. Russia then hacked into our government in order to get Trump elected. When the CIA told Congress this in September (James Comey was also in that meeting), Mitch McConnell refused to tell the American people, blackmailing Obama, saying he would frame it as playing partisan politics during the election. Comey released the infamous no-information letter. Mitch McConnell's wife was picked for Trump's cabinet. The CEO of Exxon is now the Secretary of State. Wonder why our President has been so quick to dismiss the CIA's findings?

1) Trump owes Blackstone/ Bayrock group $560 million dollars (one of his largest debtors and the primary reason he won't reveal his tax returns)

2) Blackstone is owned wholly by Russian billionaires, who owe their position to Putin and have made billions from their work with the Russian government.

3) Other companies that have borrowed from Blackstone have claimed that owing money to them is like owing to the Russian mob and while you owe them, they own you for many favors.

4) The Russian economy is badly faltering under the weight of its over-dependence on raw materials which as you know have plummeted in the last 2 years leaving the Russian economy scrambling to pay its debts.

5) Russia has an impetus to influence our election to ensure the per barrel oil prices are above $65 ( they are currently hovering around $50)

6) Russia can't affordably get at 80% of its oil reserves and reduce its per barrel cost to compete with America at $45 or Saudi Arabia at $39. With Iranian sanctions being lifted Russia will find another inexpensive competitor increasing production and pushing Russia further down the list of suppliers.
As for Iranian sanctions, the 6 countries lifting them allowing Iran to collect on the billions it is owed for pumping oil but not being paid for it. These billions Iran can only get if the Iranian nuclear deal is signed. Trump spoke of ending the deals which would cause oil sales sanctions to be reimposed, which would make Russian oil more competitive.

7) Rex Tillerson (Trump's pick for Secretary of State) is the head of ExxonMobil, which is in possession of patented technology that could help Putin extract 45% more oil at a significant cost savings to Russia, helping Putin put money in the Russian coffers to help reconstitute its military and finally afford to mass produce the new and improved systems that it had invented before the Russian economy had slowed so much.

8) Putin cannot get access to these new cost saving technologies OR outside oil field development money, due to US sanctions on Russia, because of its involvement in Ukrainian civil war.

9) Look for Trump to end sanctions on Russia and to back out of the Iranian nuclear deal, to help Russia rebuild its economy, strengthen Putin and make Tillerson and Trump even richer, thus allowing Trump to satisfy his creditors at Blackstone.

10) With Trump's fabricated hatred of NATO and the U.N., the Russian military reconstituted, the threat to the Baltic states is real. Russia retaking their access to the Baltic Sea from Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and threatening the shipping of millions of cubic feet of natural gas to lower Europe from Scandinavia, allowing Russia to make a good case for its oil and gas being piped into eastern Europe.

. . . now of course, I don't believe any of that, and anyone who would is paranoid, foolish, and unsophisticated, and probably takes her/himself too seriously, and has bad taste besides :)

I believe all of that

1) Trump owes Blackstone/ Bayrock group $560 million dollars (one of his largest debtors and the primary reason he won't reveal his tax returns)

what is the evidence for this one? if this is true the rest of it falls into place. we at least know what putin's objective was in getting trump elected and it raises more questions about why tillerson was appointed among other things.

who knows?

https://www.truthorfiction.com/donald-trump-owes-560-million-to-blackstonebayrock/

overall though it's a lot of money for a president to owe

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-businesses-owe-debt-18-billion-150-institutions-study-source-of-study-president-elect-a7512586.html

2) Blackstone is owned wholly by Russian billionaires, who owe their position to Putin and have made billions from their work with the Russian government.

This is transparently incorrect so i'd assume that they meant to write Bayrock. Blackstone is a publicly traded US company and its founder / part-owner is head of the Strategic and Policy Forum that Trump set up (the one that Elon Musk quit recently).

Some of the reporting around Bayrock has been relatively good, tbh, but it's not a Russian company and its directors don't "owe their position" to Putin. The key people behind it are Kyrgyz, Uzbek and Kazakh and have been immensely rich since the mid-90s due to their links to President Nazarbayev. The reason it should be a much bigger story isn't that it's part of a grand Russian plot, it's because it has almost certainly always served as a vehicle to rehouse money looted from Kazakh state assets. The MD, Felix Sater, was born in Russia but emigrated to Israel and then the US as a small child.

This isn't saying anything that hasn't already been reported extensively but it's on thin legal ice to go further. It's worth looking into Viktor Khrapunov's interviews for background, though. He is the former mayor of Almaty and a crook who was accused of stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from the state purse - he came out swinging at the President and Bayrock's primary investors when he got shunted out.

It's probably the single most obviously crooked thing Trump is closely associated with, imo.