immigrant & ethnic food cultures, white ppl & appropriation, foodies

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how do yucca fries fit into the appropriation context

sarahell, Friday, 26 May 2017 12:54 (nine years ago)

I assumed this was about the Pete Wells essay.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 26 May 2017 13:01 (nine years ago)

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/23/dining/noma-tulum-pete-wells-mexico-rene-redzepi.html

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 26 May 2017 13:02 (nine years ago)

Under the rustling palms of Tulum, Mexico, the chef René Redzepi has been serving what Kevin Sintumuang, reporting for Esquire, called “the most enviable meal of the year.” Mr. Redzepi, who transplanted most of his staff to the Yucatán, while Noma, his restaurant in Copenhagen, prepares to move, said he wanted Noma Mexico to be “the meal of the decade.” For Jacob Richler, who wrote about the dinner for The Toronto Star, it was “the meal of a lifetime.”

And I’m going to miss it.

Not that I will be entirely in the dark about what other people have been eating when Noma Mexico, sometimes referred to as Noma Tulum, reaches the end of its seven-week run on Sunday. Despite having accommodations for just 7,000 people, all of whom claimed reservations within two hours last December, it may be the most exhaustively documented pop-up restaurant in history. Instagram has more than 5,000 images tagged #nomamexico, and journalists have been trooping into the jungle for weeks now.

And so, from Food & Wine’s Joshua David Stein, we have learned how the interior of a bromeliad called piñuela tastes when it has been blanched, peeled and “dotted with grasshopper paste onto which adheres delicate coriander flowers.” Samantha Teague of Gourmet Traveller told us what it was like to eat octopus wrapped in masa and corn husks that were placed in a clay pot and buried in hot coals. The fire-and-ice thrill of pasilla peppers poached in honey and stuffed with chocolate sorbet was detailed by Tom Sietsema of The Washington Post. “A sliced tiny banana, slicked with seaweed oil and dotted with a paste made with its own burnt peel” is among the impressions Jonathan Gold recounted in The Los Angeles Times.

Mr. Redzepi transplanted most of his staff from his Copenhagen restaurant to prepare what he calls “the meal of the decade” in Tulum. Credit Adriana Zehbrauskas for The New York Times
As these you-are-not-there dispatches clattered in over the Teletype, I had two thoughts: The first, of course, was, “Holy banana peels, can I pull some strings and get in?” This was quickly followed by, “What is the point?”

I could describe the workings of this Brigadoon in Quintana Roo if I wrote strictly as a reporter, the way Julia Moskin did in The Times last week. But Noma Mexico short-circuits my wiring as a critic. An actual review of a pop-up that sold out months ago strikes me as spectacularly useless. It would be as helpful as reviewing a wedding.

Of course, there are other reasons to write reviews. We restaurant critics do more than fill our mouths and then flash our greasy thumbs up or down. We try to assess the way a place fits into its context, including its environment. Part of this is simply sorting out whether, say, a new Sichuan restaurant in Queens is as good as, better than or different from all the other Sichuan restaurants nearby. We ask whether it’s providing something the location doesn’t already have, and whether it makes sense there. These are separate questions: Queens might not have an overpriced, incompetent Sichuan restaurant, but that doesn’t mean opening one is a good idea.

You don’t need to eat at Noma Mexico to know Tulum doesn’t have anything like it. But does it make sense there?

Start with the advertised cost — $600 a person, or $750 after tax and service charges. This is considerably more than Noma charged for its pop-ups in Sydney (around $350 without drinks) and Tokyo (about $380), two cities where it’s not unheard-of to spend that much on a meal.

Tulum is not a city; it’s a resort town, formerly a sleepy getaway of tilted palapas and sunrise yoga classes that has been climbing upscale. Largely thanks to the tourist economy, the state of Quintana Roo has the highest employment rate in the country, but the average income is in the bottom third. About half the state’s residents live in moderate to extreme poverty.

Before dinner reservations were available, Mr. Redzepi announced that he would also be serving free lunches to Mexican culinary students for the last two weeks of the pop-up. But, clearly, most of the people coming for dinner have paid for not just the meal but for flights to the Yucatán, a car rental or taxi to Tulum, and at least one night in a hotel.

It is no surprise that a paying audience exists for this tropical getaway. At this point in his career, Mr. Redzepi could sell out a weenie roast in Death Valley. What I find hard to run through my critical algorithms, though, is the idea of a meal devoted to local traditions and ingredients that is being prepared and consumed mostly by people from somewhere else.

The Noma philosophy, from the start, was rigorously local. Mr. Redzepi drew a circle around the Nordic region and gathered almost all his ingredients from inside it, with rare exceptions. Noma founded a next-level locavorism that is widely if not always intelligently imitated, and one of its legacies is the notion that restaurants with global ambitions must demonstrate a strong attachment to their location.

This “sense of place” expectation animates a lot of the jousting behind the annual list of the World’s 50 Best Restaurants, among other things. And it has led to a strange new sight: dining rooms where expensive celebrations of the local environment are enjoyed largely by tourists.

By all reports, Noma Mexico has sense of place in spades. The path to the jungle dining area is lined with baskets of jackfruit and mangos. The tables slipped in between the palms were made from a local hardwood. Directly in front of the kitchen, four women from a nearby Mayan village make tortillas.

But can a restaurant really be of its place if it doesn’t bend and sway to the breezes of local tastes and local demands? I doubt it, and I doubt that my own ecstatic reveries (for the sake of argument, let’s assume that I would have enjoyed Noma Mexico as much as everybody else) would help on that front. I’d be another tourist, hoping to be knocked out with sensations that would carry over to the flight back to New York.

The staff working on salbute with dried tomatoes and chapulines (grasshoppers). Credit Adriana Zehbrauskas for The New York Times
Back home at the keyboard, I’d calculate how many words to spend on sensory pleasures and how many on the $2,000 or so that my employers were on the hook for, whether it was “worth it” and whether the local standard of living was likely to be helped by the attention Noma had brought to Mexican ingredients.

Fretting about the ethics of eating a meal costing hundreds of dollars is a particularly awkward form of talking with your mouth full. I know, because I’ve done it before and will do it again, always with a small pit of shame in my gut. The two things can never really be reconciled, without some shady bookkeeping.

I don’t blame Mr. Redzepi and the Noma crew for coming up with an event that makes my critical lens fog over. They’ve acknowledged that they owe something to Mexico and tried to pay it back. In Tulum, they’re chasing their curiosity and raising new bars to vault over, which is what creative people should do.

That’s the artistic side of Noma Mexico. On the business front, they’ve chosen to pour their creativity into something that, because of its planned scarcity and relative expense, has to be seen as a luxury product. Luxury goods tend to float free of the everyday world and create their own cultural context, one of wealth and exclusivity. There are many ways to respond to that, but in this case, I don’t think a review written by me is one of them. I’d rather review a restaurant that has its roots in the ground.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 26 May 2017 13:04 (nine years ago)

exactly what i read the times for - performative white guilt

Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Friday, 26 May 2017 13:16 (nine years ago)

Send that back it's too salty

spud called maris (darraghmac), Friday, 26 May 2017 13:21 (nine years ago)

i love that it's feeling insecure about whether it's okay to eat lahpet that's finally exposed ∞ for the secret trump voter that he is

― 龜, Friday, May 26, 2017 5:51 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

lol

what does this even mean? they're literally randomly stringed sentences based on nothing i've said

i never said anything about whether it's okay to eat or not eat lahpet

but anyone should eat whatever they want

i n f i n i t y (∞), Friday, 26 May 2017 18:03 (nine years ago)

∞ endorses cannibalism, clearly and obviously a trump voter

Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Friday, 26 May 2017 18:16 (nine years ago)

trump ran on a campaign that promised all americans the right to eat whatever they wanted, including humans, including babies

it's a fundamental american right

i n f i n i t y (∞), Friday, 26 May 2017 18:20 (nine years ago)

unsurprising he started the presidency with executive orders telling us exactly what to eat

mh, Friday, 26 May 2017 21:37 (nine years ago)

Yeah, living in portland among the businesses attacked(that Kooks burrito joint was weekend-renting a taco truck across the street from my library) has been REAL fun this week

Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish), Saturday, 27 May 2017 05:26 (nine years ago)

And it's made me want to linkspam Mark Fisher's essay everywhere

And reminded of the comment I heard a few years back that so much of social media now is white people accusing other white people of being white

Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish), Saturday, 27 May 2017 05:29 (nine years ago)

which essay?

mh, Saturday, 27 May 2017 16:10 (nine years ago)

still more afraid of getting stabbed to death by a trump supporter on the train than i am of being accused of "cultural appropriation" by the portland left

Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Saturday, 27 May 2017 16:18 (nine years ago)

portland is goofy. i've seen that show.

scott seward, Saturday, 27 May 2017 16:35 (nine years ago)

i think you should know- goofy is black.

Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Saturday, 27 May 2017 17:58 (nine years ago)

MH this is the essay: Exiting the Vampire Castle

He wrote it back in late 2013 and got no end of shit for it, but was quite prescient in a lot of ways

Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish), Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:00 (nine years ago)

leftists are morons who get worked up over trivial things while attempting to demonstrate their superiority... wow, i never knew

sleepingbag, Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:23 (nine years ago)

As opposed those who attempt to demonstrate their superiority by calling others morons?

A is for (Aimless), Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:26 (nine years ago)

ah yeah I was wondering which in particular you meant, some of his eulogies on the web addressed how the reaction was over the top

mh, Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:28 (nine years ago)

go protest a sandwich xp

sleepingbag, Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:30 (nine years ago)

imo debating over small points isn't getting worked up necessarily but not everyone is really capable of reasoning through something, coming up with their opinion on the matter, and then walking off understanding that their opinion isn't universal and might not be worth chastising others over

idk if labeling people who get cranked up instead of being reasonable as morons is an indicator you're capable of chill, either

mh, Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:32 (nine years ago)

hey sleepingbag I hope you have a really good sandwich sometime and maybe reconsider

mh, Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:33 (nine years ago)

trump ran on a campaign that promised all americans the right to eat whatever they wanted, including humans, including babies

American babies, preferably, foreign babies will be subject to a new import tax

sarahell, Saturday, 27 May 2017 20:37 (nine years ago)

MH this is the essay: Exiting the Vampire Castle

― Bio-Digital Jezza (kingfish)

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk. Have at you!

Cyborg Kickboxer (rushomancy), Saturday, 27 May 2017 21:50 (nine years ago)

I feel like dudes like Baylee's should outsource their counter arguments or stay silent because it's kind of a bad look to do this

mh, Thursday, 1 June 2017 05:53 (nine years ago)

Bayless

mh, Thursday, 1 June 2017 05:53 (nine years ago)

this is garbage and personal, but i'm really glad that this thread has turned into a more critical look at the relationship between food/race/gentrification/tortillas/foodtrucks/white portlandian girls/etc. though bayless in that article pulled the reverse racism card, which is a non-starter. i also think his reverence for mexican food has almost certainly helped mexican/mexican-american purveyors of such.

on a personal, unrelatable and unempathetic note i'd like to say in regard to this comment re me: "stop posting and go back into whatever lurker hole you crawled out of" fuck you dayo.

new york has been one hell of a place for food to trend, die, exist, be authentic, not be authentic. shit. i've sat in the basement of flushing malls watching pudgy white guys photograph DUMPLINGS!. so all that's there. and after this whole thread, what i don't get, is:

what's your beef?

lion in winter, Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:02 (nine years ago)

I will tell you the truth: I am not a person who looks at people through “race” eyes. I’d rather focus on the beauty that people all over the world are creating every day. Which means I’ve honestly never sat around wondering if I have gotten where I am because I’m white, wondering if I should feel angst-ridden guilt because I was born white. Honestly, what would that accomplish?

for the first time, Rick seems like a bigger asshole than his brother

El Tuomasbot (milo z), Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:07 (nine years ago)

^^^ it sometimes seems like, in lieu of an overlord editor that will rephrase statements like the above you all want a revolution carried out by people who won't slip on discursive ice.

what an asshole. i can't fucking believe when trump is president that rick bayless wishes he hadn't handicapped his success by determining he couldn't do what he wanted to do before he did it.

who is possibly served by criticizing him?

lion in winter, Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:34 (nine years ago)

usually when you corner someone and say hey: you're wrong, but there's no way out of your guilt because your wrongness predates my accusation than people have a problem. rb didn't do so bad for an old guy.

lion in winter, Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:38 (nine years ago)

"I don't see race" is pig ignorance.

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:40 (nine years ago)

And the sheer lack of thought it must take to live to middle-age and never think about how your white race has advantaged you is pretty breathtaking

-_- (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:43 (nine years ago)

Yeah I wrote that: "though bayless in that article pulled the reverse racism card"

I'm not saying it's good I'm saying the fight in small. Like this isn't by evidence a guy who trampled all over Mexico.

lion in winter, Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:47 (nine years ago)

All this is pointless. It's so easy to take on people whose responses are in good faith and wrong and determine them assholes or whatever. I'm interested when a guy like him does answer that question.

lion in winter, Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:50 (nine years ago)

Put differently: show me pre tv bayless defending cultural appropriation. I like the question now, I have very little time for the pile in that had already assumed its unanswerability.

lion in winter, Thursday, 1 June 2017 06:53 (nine years ago)

And the sheer lack of thought it must take to live to middle-age and never think about how your white race has advantaged you is pretty breathtaking

Reminds me of when I heard Jon Krakauer on the radio saying that before he decided to write a book about sexual assault, he hadn't thought about it as a big deal. Like it was bad and something that shouldn't happen, but he hadn't considered it different than other types of assault. Bayless is embarrassing himself pretty badly with this one.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 1 June 2017 12:38 (nine years ago)

lol lion in winter you're a little shit is all.

shit. i've sat in the basement of flushing malls watching pudgy white guys photograph DUMPLINGS!!. so all that's there.

what are you trying to prove with this? why do you come back to to this thread when it's clear it's only giving you heartburn?

, Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:07 (nine years ago)

shit. i've sat in the basement of flushing malls watching pudgy white guys photograph DUMPLINGS!!!. so all that's there.

IRL ILX

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:10 (nine years ago)

I did that, but it turned out the wall was mirrored

mh, Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:28 (nine years ago)

I did that, but it turned out I was the dumpling

kajagoogoo's kazooist (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 1 June 2017 15:29 (nine years ago)

we need to steal all of chinese character username's chinese food and never let him back in this thread

no place for old ilxors in nu ilx newayz

i n f i n i t y (∞), Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:26 (nine years ago)

Turning into a bit of a burrito stall anyways

D'mnuchin returns (darraghmac), Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:29 (nine years ago)

dmac have you seen this

you'll probably hate it but whatevs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e6qyxHc0ng

i n f i n i t y (∞), Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:37 (nine years ago)

Before I commit are they Irish or american

D'mnuchin returns (darraghmac), Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:38 (nine years ago)

yes

i n f i n i t y (∞), Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:39 (nine years ago)

irish

i n f i n i t y (∞), Thursday, 1 June 2017 16:39 (nine years ago)

I will brook no criticism of dayo's impeccable ilx brand and good opinions itt specifically

softie (silby), Thursday, 1 June 2017 20:44 (nine years ago)

^^^ it sometimes seems like, in lieu of an overlord editor that will rephrase statements like the above you all want a revolution carried out by people who won't slip on discursive ice.

"I don't see race" and "it's never concerned me whether or not being white was an advantage" are a bit more than "slipping on discursive ice" - that's an entire fucking worldview.

El Tuomasbot (milo z), Thursday, 1 June 2017 20:59 (nine years ago)


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