Democratic (Party) Direction

it actually is a pretty new phenomenon, dipshit

you care more about the sound of your own voice than the issue at hand

this is the kind of self-serving general shut-down you could tote around and apply to pretty much anything discussed online. conversational authenticity dick measuring content.

conversational authenticity dick measuring content.

my favorite line from "Paranoid Android"

I'm starting to feel hopeful about 2018, but it's really only because of two things: (1) the sheer unpopularity of the agenda republicans are forcing through and (2) a base energized by Trump. IMO this does not bode well for the longer term even if they take the presidency in 2020, because what will sustain the party when the Trump hate fest is over? Where is the positive vision for the future? Because I still see the same technocratic, almost apolitical attitude, typified by the outpouring of enthusiasm and money for Osoff a guy who, while far preferable to a Republican, seems to stand for nothing except boyish good looks and vague ideas about entrepreneurship, technology and doing policy in a "smart" way (as though there are no first principles, just solutions to problems).

Of course the GOP has a similar problem - without Obama hatred to fuel them, their platform is actually deeply unpopular, far moreso than democrats' platform. Trump was kind of a fluke for them, a lucky break that saved their asses against their own protests.

that's about where I am as well

Where is the positive vision for the future?

this is like the #1 thing the left has that dems don't

this is like the #1 thing the left has that dems don't

Really? Show me a single thing "the left" stands for as a political goal in 21st century America that can be achieved without, basically, magic.

I agree with 誤訳侮辱 here. Looking at what's out there right now I would personally totally settle for the standard D platform, even if it were advanced by someone with only good looks and vague ideas. (Right-wingers were thrilled to get behind a candidate that did not exactly fit their wish list, provided their wishes get advanced.) One can love lefty goals and still admit that we're missing some key intermediate steps on the way to them.

I want every Dem house candidate in 2018 to campaign on "medicare for all"

what 誤訳侮辱 would call "magic"

The "magic" of a majority of reps in both houses who support such policies and a president who will sign them into law.

I don't get why Morbs can't stop taking his uncontainable rage at the compromised, corrupt, stumbling fecklessness of the Democrats and making it personal with any poster who tries to grapple with it in a way that's insufficiently furious

man alive otm

Since we're talking about the direction of the Democratic party and how to win back people who switched from Obama to Trump in key swing states, I thought I would share this so you can what you are looking to win back:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/04/13-remarkable-quotes-from-people-who-voted-for-both-barack-obama-and-donald-trump/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.edb01cc27c93

Key quotes:

1. A Michigan woman:

“Obama is more like your best friend who has parties and has Beyoncé over, and then Trump is like your dad. He's going to come whoop your ass because you didn't do what you were supposed to do and get it done, yeah.”

3. A Wisconsin woman:

“I voted for Obama too, because, I mean, there's always been a white person, obviously, in office. I mean, he was of African descent, so I voted for him thinking I would change a little bit of the race issues that we had going on and make the colored people feel better, like they have a black person in office.”

11. A Michigan woman:

“And I always thought that Obama is a really nice guy. Trump is not. But Trump is going to be a better president, because Obama was not.”

13. A Wisconsin woman:

“I didn't always like listening to Hillary. I didn't always agree with what he said, but I could listen to his like speech and stuff a wee bit more than Hillary's. Like anything she said just turned me off.”

whereas if you did vox pops of random poors who voted hillary it would all be extremely cogent and politically astute commentary? is american liberalism all about scoffing?

kiss my ass

apparently important voters are the ones who'd rather not be interviewed

The "magic" of a majority of reps in both houses who support such policies and a president who will sign them into law.

a majority of americans support such policies so I don't consider it "magic," just a lot of hard work getting non shitty people who respect their consituents to run for office and win

The "magic" of a majority of reps in both houses who support such policies and a president who will sign them into law.

― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, May 5, 2017 1:40 PM (twenty-eight minutes ago

we had this chance in 2009 and kicked the can down the road. it's not happening in our lifetimes

this [nb:vision] is like the #1 thing the left has that dems don't

Really? Show me a single thing "the left" stands for as a political goal in 21st century America that can be achieved without, basically, magic.

You are criticizing visionaries for not being realists. But it is notably hard to bring something into reality if you can't even envision it.

More to the point, "the left" is a pretty broad brush, especially in the USA, where extra food assistance for poor pregnant women is considered a "leftist" program and just maintaining New Deal policies that have stood for 75 years automatically labels you as a leftist/liberal.

do not fucking tell me that I am in the wrong for objecting to both of the major political parties in this country pandering to a mindset that would refer to me as "colored"

fuck that, and fuck you, jim in vancouver

sigh

I agree w DJP that the direction of the party should not be dictated by the misconception that we need morons + racists' votes

and not because of ideological purity, but because of there being other available votes to get

the problem w/2016 wasn't that the racists and misogynists didn't vote for hillary it was a multitude of factors and largely due to the fact that she didn't energize the base of people who should have voted for her. listen i mean if i'm a candidate i wouldn't want to desperately chase the votes of "a wisconsin woman" or a milady bernie bro anyway, let them fuck off. Obama didn't win because he got their votes, he was an inspiring candidate to the left.

its not super sexy but I assume running on an anti-corruption/nepotism platform couldnt hurt. who likes nepotism? seems like the current laws against it dont fucking work, so run on setting up some new ones?

largely due to the fact that she didn't energize the base of people who should have voted for her

Yes she did! Hispanics and other POC voted for her in record numbers.

I thought African-American turnout was down from...?

2012?

The high percentage of politically disengaged non-voters and infrequent voters in the US electorate means that angry and frightened voters make up a major bloc of the most likely voters. It is pretty easy to anger or frighten morons and racists and the GOP has been honing their chops since Nixon first ran for Congress. This is an intractable problem that we've had our noses rubbed in for decades now. It's damned hard to find a formula that overrides this basic electoral truth.

Obama's candidacy presented a fairly novel/unique solution - a candidate that energizes the youth and POC, w enough coattails for a governing coalition. Shame the whole financial meltdown absorbed so much of the resulting political capital.

I thought African-American turnout was down from...?

― Οὖτις, Friday, May 5, 2017 2:30 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

2012?

― Οὖτις, Friday, May 5, 2017 2:30 PM

slightly

i mean she lost a lot of Obama votes in certain Michigan and Ohio counties. those i think happened in red counties, ones he lost previously. maybe it wouldn't have swung the election back to her if she had kept his numbers or improved on them, idk.

> the problem w/2016

oh stop

argely due to the fact that she didn't energize the base of people who should have voted for her

Yes she did! Hispanics and other POC voted for her in record numbers.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, May 5, 2017 2:28 PM (ten minutes ago)

alfred, are you just making stuff up now? hispanic and AA share of the vote was down compared to the last two elections

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/29/hillary-clinton-wins-latino-vote-but-falls-below-2012-support-for-obama/

How much of that was "failure to energize the base" and how much was active voter suppression measures? (Asking w/o clicking the link, am lazy, it's Friday.)

In the days before Election Day, there was evidence of a possible historic surge in Latino voter turnout nationwide. Reports from Florida, Nevada and elsewhere showed strong early-voter turnout among Latinos. And the national exit poll suggests that Latinos did make up a larger share of voters in 2016 than previously: 11% this year, up from 10% in 2012 and 9% in 2008. Preliminary estimates show that slightly more votes were cast nationwide compared with 2012, leaving it unclear how many Latinos actually voted in 2016. (This year’s Latino voter turnout, which has historically trailed other groups, won’t be known until sometime in 2017 when the U.S. Census Bureau publishes its report on U.S. voting.)

Turnout aside, a record 27.3 million of Latinos were eligible to vote in 2016, up 4 million from four years ago – the largest increase of any racial or ethnic group. And the Latino electorate grew in many states since 2012, including the battlegrounds of Arizona, Florida and Nevada.

tldr: we don't know what turnout was, but it was probably higher

whereas if you did vox pops of random poors who voted hillary it would all be extremely cogent and politically astute commentary? is american liberalism all about scoffing?

― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, May 5, 2017 1:04 PM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm sure they'd say that Hillary is their abuela.

oh god i had forgotten about that whole thing

> the problem w/2016

oh stop

― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Friday, May 5, 2017 7:37 PM (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

like many people i'm working through residual 2016 (sorry) feelings in my own rambling way.

i'm frustrated on behalf of my family too, my brother who's wife has been battling cancer for five years and is likely going to lose out big because of that election loss, moreso because they don't make money. idk skip over my post if you don't like it i guess.

i feel where you're coming from, but trying to _explain_ 2016 at this point is totally a lost cause. we're never going to all agree about what happened and why. man, don't try to make sense of it. just be fuckin' mad about it.

i'm mad! it's all the worse since it feels like nothing more than revenge politics. and of course these fuckers drink bud light.

Spuds McKen(a)zie

I agree w DJP that the direction of the party should not be dictated by the misconception that we need morons + racists' votes

What I do see on the left is some remnant of questioning how the racists get that way - and there's some value in questioning that if you want to combat it long term. Just wanting to ignore the problem or blasting anyone who brings it up is sort of like raging against Chomsky or someone who wanted to talk about our foreign policy history in the wake of 9/11.

Wow at that comparison...

not sure I get what exactly "the problem" is referring to there - racists in general? racist voters that change their minds about which party they want to vote for? Dems courting racist voters?

racists in general are certainly a problem in general.

dems courting racist voters can only align US politics more closely with the creating the sort of society that racists prefer, so it should also be considered a problem to the degree dems are doing this, which in my locality is not hardly at all.

Once we find out exactly who to blame we'll know how to win the next one.

for now let's just trust the DNC tho!

No no let's put you in charge