Hillary Clinton: Classic or Dud?

that photo -- it's Hillary out with her gay manfriend!

on the bernie left it is for sure. i think the intersectional left currently is making a point of being pro-hillary, which again is understandable from an optics standpoint but kind of hollow imo

i will say that 10 years ago it would have been a lot more fashionable to hate hillary on the left.

don't understand this, hating Hillary is practically prerequisite for being progressive these days.

sorry when i say left there i don't mean hard left, obv they've always hated the clintons and always will

Minorities understand her like whites never will, as shown in the turnout.

I don't think it's "hollow" if you're a woman. My wife still hasn't gotten over November and it's hard to blame her.

it's because she's much more deserving of it now xxp

"$675,000? I don't know, it's what they were paying." Really what is up with these progressives who can't see she's on the side of the angels, and a true "ally" of "everyday Americans"?

yes, like Alfred said.

sentimental bullshit

you got it, that's the spirit that's making America great again!

you are a minority of one, it's true

I wouldn't really call you sentimental, Morbius.

Who else is there? Warren, and... um, uhhh....

― flappy bird, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:01 (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i doubt warren is especially liable to win over the "lock her up" brigade, even if I do enjoy watching her grilling bankers, it makes me feel powerful.

i'm not going to be quite as harsh as morbs because i think the lingering feelings are legitimate, but i def think there is a certain tendentious revisionism currently in fashion among certain people under the democratic umbrella that has more to do with her differences with donald trump than it does with her own virtues

huh?

she's viewed favorably because people would rather her be president

she*

(i mean, with good reason obv)

i would would rather she be president

i would would rather a tree stump be president

(ie a prez w/ Hil's charisma and better mic skills)

by "certain people" do you mean "minorities who have supported her for years" or "women who have supported her for years" or "LGBT people who have supported her for years"

I don't know a single person who criticized Clinton back in the day who wholeheartedly embraced her in this race. I know several who felt she was the only sane option but they weren't happy about voting for her; most of them had never voted for a Democrat in their lives. The people I know who vociferously supported her were the people who voted for her over Obama in the 2008 primary and were sad she wasn't running in 2004, and these people cross all of the demographics I mentioned.

Basically, it's inconceivable to a subset of the American left/Democratic party that some people may have never hated Hillary Clinton, and these people like to express their incredulous disbelief over and over, louder and louder, just to make sure you don't make the mistake of thinking they might not hate Hillary Clinton.

idk, i haven't really witnessed any of this favorable revisionism wrt Hillary. at best she's been pitied but mostly I just see people dunking on her everywhere.

which is why the propaganda machinery during election season at least made sense even if it was annoying, but at this point it's over, she lost, we can just admit she sucks now

by "we" you mean "ILX," not "the other people who are not white or men who voted for her."

She ran a fine campaign against an unconventional candidate against; she would've beaten any other candidate.

cross out "against"

man, your floor for "a fine campaign" surprises me.

isn't there a baseball game on or something

Way better than Dukakis, Mondale, and Kerry? Wayyyyy better than Gkre?

a fine campaign would have had a message beyond "that guy is ka-raaayzee" imo

But she didn't visit Michigan, which as we all know was the only swing-state she lost.

ok I guess "america is already great" was the other, even worse part of the messaging xp

also "I have experience, Kissinger is my friend and Nancy Reagan was an AIDS activist"

she definitely ran a campaign that would have worked against a conventional candidate. can't fault her for not adjusting, i guess

a fine campaign would have had a message beyond "that guy is ka-raaayzee" imo

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, May 2, 2017 1:49 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

listen i looooooove to relitigate the fucking election but this received-wisdom-among-hardcore-leftists reductive ass view of her campaign is fucking stupid

what was her vision for the country beyond "third term of obama" brad

Just curious: Why isn't 'third term of obama' good enough?

i feel like people voted for obama

as their wages continued to stagnate

they voted for HIM, yes.

"third term of incremental gains for some while a widening chunk of the country burns" takes a way more skilled pol to sell imo

She would've won against a more conventional candidate.

She would've won if Comey hadn't made his late October announcement, of which there's plenty of data showing.

what was her vision for the country beyond "third term of obama" brad

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:59 PM

is your name Mark Halperin?

no, thank god

"third term of Obama" is not the same message as "that guy is ka-raaayzee"

She is a policy wonk; her entire platform was built upon the idea that people should bring her problems and she would sit down with her team, study precedents and statutes, and forge a consensus-friendly answer that would benefit as many people as it could to the best of its ability. It's not a sexy platform or one that easily breaks down into soundbites but it is pretty much exactly how you need to run a government serving a plethora of needs and competing interests, not all of which are easily dismissed as cranks and unimportant.

Also, how much of that widening burning chunk of the country is due to states voting in obstructionist Republicans who do not have any ideas to bring to the table beyond trickle-down economics and "everything Democrats propose is evil and wrong because they allowed a black man to run for President"?

People who are Democrats will vote for the Democrat against this generation of nu-Reagan nihilists -- and a female Democrat. That was reason enough. It's not that hard. I'm quite sorry you can dismiss women and the blacks suspicious of Sanders so easily (and I was a fervent Sanders supporter in the primaries); they would be most likely to be hurt by a Trump administration and Congress working in sync.

But, sure, yea, fine, she shouldn't have spent so much time turning him into Darth Vader -- in part because he was.

has anyone else read Shattered yet?

fwiw unlike uhh a lot of people apparently I'm not necessarily convinced Bernie would have won

Why should we? It looks like we're writing our own versions.

xpost

she definitely ran a campaign that would have worked against a conventional candidate. can't fault her for not adjusting, i guess

― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:52 (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

one of the main things to fault her campaign on, really.

DJP otm

After the last few months, a third term for Obama sounds enticing. Or, for that matter, a third term for Bill. Or first term for Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, or Hillary. Maybe none of those is what we would design from scratch, but any of them would represent an improvement over Yamilton.

But sure, yeah, let's rev up the neg-on-Hillz machine anew.