White trick-or-treaters in blackface: C/D?

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where "restate" actually means "improve with 98% original content"

― _, Saturday, 5 November 2005 01:58 (twenty years ago)

dude the dutch were like the central slave-traders to all the european powers for a massive span of years! & they still haven't been able to produce a museum exhibit that fesses up properly to it. (as i recall, the last one, much like french w/ algeria, tried to highlight "positive" aspects of "cultural exchange"!)

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 5 November 2005 04:17 (twenty years ago)

yes, that's a very Dutch way of dealing with things, politicians here tried to do that to the Indonesians as well. But I don't quite agree with the "fessing up" part. We know that these other people, who came from/lived in our country hundreds of years ago did awful things to other people. But I guess we feel like we've left all that behind us, along with the guillotine and witch huntings and other hideous parts of history. It's ugly, and you might feel some sort of guilt when hearing about it, but it's more important how you and your society behave in the present to make up for it. I'm not saying this is the right way, just that's the way things work in Holland, and that probably goes for other parts of Europe too. (like Germany and the Second World War)

― Eva van Rein (Gaia1981), Saturday, 5 November 2005 07:11 (twenty years ago)

haha just the opposite is going on there! after years of being the best proponents of collective guilt, german historians are now playing up the "wait! germany was firebombed too!" thing.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 5 November 2005 09:09 (twenty years ago)

yes, probably because collective guilt is not very healthy for a society and they're looking for a way to get rid of part of it...dunno, just a theory

― Eva van Rein (Gaia1981), Saturday, 5 November 2005 09:18 (twenty years ago)

I think we should send a link to this kid so he can print out this whole thread and dress up with it next year!

― Nathalie, the Queen of Frock 'n' Fall (stevie nixed), Saturday, 5 November 2005 09:21 (twenty years ago)

Haha that would be the perfect solution, indeed :P

― Eva van Rein (Gaia1981), Saturday, 5 November 2005 09:22 (twenty years ago)

"And here, you can see that nabisco is quite literally covering my ass"

― Andrew Farrell (afarrell), Saturday, 5 November 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

I went to a Halloween party in Santa Cruz where two partygoers (one white, one black) respectively dressed up as a KKK marshall, dragging his slave on a rope. Wasn't quite sure how to react to that one.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Saturday, 5 November 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

Woah.

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Saturday, 5 November 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

So it's no longer racist in that instance? If not, that almost seems like racism itself (expecting any black person to find that offensive etc.). But if yes (and I'm prepared to consider this as the more 'logical' verdict), it just increases the range in terms of what racism actually means or can mean even further, but perhaps to the point where it actually loses it's power (for better or worse).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:24 (twenty years ago)

It would've been more interesting if it had been the black partygoer portraying the marshall.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Saturday, 5 November 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

I watched part of the first season of Kids in the Hall yesterday and they had a sketch with Mark Mckinney in blackface in the very first episode! He was playing a bluesman and is a Canadian though, so it might slip by on some sort of technicality.

― mike h. (mike h.), Saturday, 5 November 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

you ever see the skit where Mark McKinney deals with the irony of playing an old blues guy ("I'm more of a Pogues, guy, really")? It's pretty great. And see upthread the distinction between playing a black person and "blackface."

― 'Twan (miccio), Saturday, 5 November 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

I think a rousing chorus of "DUMBASS" would have sufficed.

― Dan (Fucking Hell) Perry (Dan Perry), Saturday, 5 November 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

I think, rather lamely, I just stood in the corner of the room feeling quiet and English. Although coming dressed as Kathleen Turner probably didn't help.

― Chuck_Tatum (Chuck_Tatum), Saturday, 5 November 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

Next time, lure the Klansman to his death by jumping onto a chandelier.

― Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Sunday, 6 November 2005 00:00 (twenty years ago)

After thinking about those kids and this thread some more, I'm positive there's no way anyone could be certain that I overreacted. (Yes, I realize that I wasn't wholly descriptive of the situation and the temperament of my reaction.) I had given those kids the benefit of the doubt since I assumed they were Wallace fans, even though they were wearing head-to-toe jet black and double Oscar Gambles. (Again, replace the jerseys with almost any other clothing and you'd really be baffled.) But I cannot be certain about the intent. Those kids were young enough to have impressionable racist fathers or mothers who might've thought it to be cute. You also have to consider that I'm not in the most diverse metropolitan area. There are pockets of very visible hatred and ignorance: cross burnings, graffiti, the above-mentioned lawn jockeys, all recent and/or ongoing. Three incidents I was involved in as a bystander will always stay with me, and they all occurred within 10-15 miles of where I live. So, no, I cannot assume either way about the kids, and if something similar happens next year I will hopefully see the parents nearby and have a civilized discussion. I seriously doubt that any of you who have posted on this thread would've shrugged off what I saw.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Sunday, 6 November 2005 02:07 (twenty years ago)

Andy, where exactly are you at?

― KSTFUNS (Ex Leon), Sunday, 6 November 2005 15:16 (twenty years ago)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/tracerhand/l8hweenafghangirl.jpg

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 09:30 (twenty years ago)

hahahahaha

― _, Tuesday, 8 November 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

that is so cool

― A Nairn (moretap), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

Minstrel team forced to polish off their act

― Mädchen (Madchen), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

'Arabing up' funnier and more acceptable than 'blacking up' shockah?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

i wouldnt laugh if it was just generic "arabing up" but dressing yourself as a famous national geographic cover is funny regardless of circumstances, my laughter shouldnt imply endorsement but i think it has less room for misinterpretation than lil white kids in afro wigs and shoe polish on their faces (however i would also laugh at someone costumed as the infamous time magazine dark OJ cover from 1994)

― _, Tuesday, 8 November 2005 14:34 (twenty years ago)

well yes it's the difference between dressing up as a person, or dressing up as a race.

― ken c (ken c), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

http://static.flickr.com/27/57205322_60c06b7cef.jpg

― Jdubz (ex machina), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

well yes it's the difference between dressing up as a person, or dressing up as a race.

i'm not sure if that NG cover is really any different to dressing up as Ben Wallace, synthetic skin tone and all, in terms of the outcome. it's useful here for perspective.

re 'Arabing up' - for ages on this thread i wanted to mention Eminem as Bin Laden in the 'Without Me' video, and even Chris Morris as 'Fur Q' in Brass Eye and the differences there, how they escape potential outrage and why, but I couldn't get round to formulating the point fully and it seems kinda moot ultimately.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

afghanistan isn't an arabian country.

― hstencil (hstencil), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 16:10 (twenty years ago)

Was Arabian Prince legitamately Arabian? I have my doubts.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

Remember when Reeves and Mortimer used to black up and do Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye as a couple of puppets who lived in a wardrobe? Don't remember anyone complaining about that. (Obviously Americans will have no idea what i'm on about)

― Oh No, It's Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

I already mentioned that. Quite a few people did complain in the end, and they had to do the sketch minus face paint.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

Stencil stole my not-so-pedantic point. Seriously though, guys, this really does have to do with the quality of the makeup! I know that doesn't fit very well into our logical race framework, but it's totally true. National Geographic guy has actually done a really good job with the skin-tone -- it's like a sincere attempt at realism. Plus there's nothing super-"funny" about it, it's kinda more sweet. It's mostly annoying when people do really crude "funny" shoe-polish shit, which on some reason reads kinda like "hahaha black people have dark skin! that's so hilarious!"

― nabiscothingy, Tuesday, 8 November 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, National Geographic dude even has the windblown dirt smudges down.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 8 November 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

what about these? are these offensive? If not, how are they different from the Ben Wallace costume:

http://cache.halloweenmart.com/images/ip013649.jpg

http://cache.halloweenmart.com/images/ip013650.jpg

http://cache.halloweenmart.com/images/ip008979.jpg

http://cache.halloweenmart.com/images/ip011288.jpg

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:20 (twenty years ago)

that samuri's moustache doesn't seem too much like a sincere attempt.

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:22 (twenty years ago)

This is a sincere attempt:

http://www.alorabrooks.com/whitechicks.jpg

where this is not:

http://www.clown-ministry.com/images/FrancescoCaroli-cropped.jpg

but these are not too offensive. Is it because of historical context and minority vs. majority?

― A Nairn (moretap), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:42 (twenty years ago)

how are they different from the Ben Wallace costume:

As one example, the third woman down is not covered in red paint.

― Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 11:23 (twenty years ago)

I was offended by White Chicks on several levels, despite having not seen it.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 11:26 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

http://www.hiphop-blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/blackfacejesus.jpg

http://www.hiphop-blogs.com/hiphop/2005/12/blackface_jesus.html

― $#@!!, Monday, 19 December 2005 21:00 (twenty years ago)

I read about 5 comments and then felt my eyes beginning to bleed.

― Dan (I Hate Stupid People) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)

If someone dressed up as darth vader and painted their face black, it wouldn't be "blackface darth vader," just darth vader.

Nonwithstanding the fact that Darth Vader actually wears a mask and is not dark skinned? What kind of crap Darth Vader costumes has this man seen!!!

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

If someone dressed up as darth vader and painted the darth vader face on their ass, it wouldn't be "assface darth vader," just darth vader.

― Dan (MDK) Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:20 (twenty years ago)

If someone dressed up as darth vader and wore a colts jersey, it wouldn't be "peyton manning darth vader," just darth vader.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:23 (twenty years ago)

We could have a whole slew of brilliant Darth Vader costumes with this logic!! Did it ever occur to anyone on this thread that the kids who started this all were actually dressed up as "Ben Wallace Darth Vader"???????

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

but Darth Vader IS black

― detoxyDancer (sexyDancer), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Darth Vader is Justin Timberlake, everyone knows that.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

He's a simple, country boy who loves his mama.

― detoxyDancer (sexyDancer), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

but Darth Vader IS black

He certainly sounds black.

― Onimo (GerryNemo), Monday, 19 December 2005 21:39 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sith.nl/multimedia/characters/darth_vader/others/vader%20unmasked.jpg

― $#@!!!, Monday, 19 December 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

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