AGING PARENTS

and yeah, fortunately my wife has all that POA stuff dialed in, got that done a few years back and boy are we glad.

Thanks for the info quincie. What does intestate mean? I'm in total denial about my aging parents.

Idk want "go through probate" means either but I can tell it's something to be avoided & has to do with court.

Another thing about POA, durable POA for healthcare, etc. -- be sure you keep the originals somewhere safe and secure. I spent about two years searching for the certified original copy of my father's POA; before that I had only photocopies, which probably wouldn't have been accepted if I had tried to make changes to his financial accounts or to sell his real estate.

Knowing where important documents are is especially important if your AGING PARENTS have memory problems because eventually they will not remember which very safe place they put them in.

xp "Intestate" is the condition of not having a valid Last Will and Testament. If you die intestate, the disposition of your property is determined by state law and the judgment of the probate court rather than by the terms of your will. I don't think probate can be avoided for most people's estates. Having a will makes that process a lot smoother. Also see above about certified original copies. My only copy of my father's will is a photocopy, which might or might not be accepted at probate. The terms of his will are so simplistic that the outcome would be much the same either way, but for many families it could make a big difference.

I don't know much about how the probate process works, so I'd appreciate more info about this too.

Hi Quincie,

My mother is in Rockville, so I'd be dealing with the Montgomery County APS--do you know how responsive, effective, etc. they are?

A couple of years ago I gave my mother a copy of Five Wishes. Earlier today I found it at the house (uncompleted and insect-stained). Drafting the will and POA based on online templates is probably the best way to start. However, since my mother WANTS to talk to a lawyer about the house title, and seems to be receptive to preparing a POA and a will, I'd like a lawyer to look at the documents. A little preliminary work on Yelp identified two possible firms; does anyone have any better ideas for finding a lawyer?

I now work in MoCo, actually! I have not yet had any interaction with MoCo APS, but according to colleagues it's much the same story: person has capacity? Best of luck to you! The MoCo Office of Aging and Disability may be more helpful, but probably not by much.

Again via colleagues I've been given names of two trust&estate attys who seem to be well-liked; I'll e-mail those to you when I'm back in the office.

Idea: everyone on ILX can ship their AGING PARENTS and a buttload of money to me and I'll take care of everything!

I'm starting to lowkey freak out about the fact that I live in another country from my (somewhat rapidly) aging parents. Like How TF am I going to deal w this.

urgh - sorry J. Lu for the situation you're in - this is all terribly familiar.
These last 7 years, I've considered most of the options upthread but my mother has been very hostile and belligerent to any suggestion that she may not be 100% lucid. It is basically impossible to talk about these things with her, she will just clam up and get upset. My solution has been to bring in more and more house-help under somewhat false pretenses - ie a "cleaning lady" coming in every day for a couple of hours. It costs us a fortune but the peace of mind it's brought me in the last couple of years is, as they say, priceless.

Tracer I know the feeling. My brother still lives in the usa & even in the same city as them so he'll shoulder the physical burden at least.

It's possible for me to bring them here too if things get very bad.

I can't imagine that Tracer. Every time I've had the chance to live in another country I've avoided it because of the distance it would put between my parents and me. How long have you lived overseas now?

Every so often I see articles talking about (U.S.) citizens who retire in a country outside the U.S., because of cheaper costs of living. I hope to god for the sake of these retirees' next of kin that the retirees prepared their wills and powers of attorney BEFORE the move. Imagine trying to support an aging parent not just over a distance, but with language barriers and possibly a drastically different legal system to complicate things.

(Since the 2016 election, I've thought vaguely about emigrating to Germany. It wouldn't have been imminent anyways, but it sure won't be happening any time soon.)

In the meantime, I've downloaded templates for a will and a power of attorney, and I just spoke to my mother about drafting these documents before we go to a lawyer. She sounded reluctant but resigned.

I'm so mad at my sister right now. When we first decided we couldn't let Mom go on in her current way any longer, my sister suggested letting her stay temporarily to the currently vacant condo she owns. So when yesterday I suggested moving Mom there as a halfway house to getting her to move to Leisure World, my sister balked. Her explanation was that it would disrupt Mom's "momentum" towards moving to Leisure World.

I do not doubt that my sister is as busy with work as she says. But Mom seems alarmingly happy to live in a squalid house, spending her days watching TV and petting the cats, and buying more clothes and groceries (which tend to get lost in the clutter). If my mother has any momentum when I'm not around and trying to coax her into doing something, I see no sign of it.

I've still got my mother's cats, and have said that I really don't want to return them until the situation is "resolved." I love cats, but 1) one of them has occasionally pooped on the floor, no matter how frequently I clean the litter box, and 2) my hands and wrists are itching and irritated in a way that make me afraid I'm allergic to cats.

So my mother has had lung cancer for the past 4 ish years but she stopped treating it about two years ago and is definitely in rapid decline. She also has some form of undiagnosed (my dad doesn't see the point in taking her to see someone for that) dementia which is heartbreaking. My father won't even consider a visiting nurse even though he's at the point of pretty much doing literally everything for her because he thinks having people coming in to help would be betraying her somehow. ?! While I'm not in another country I am still quite far away (they're in FL and I'm in MA) and I'm an only child. Recently her doctor said that he can't say if it'll be next week or in six months but she'd definitely dying. That might be the weirdest part - that limbo. I'm going down there at the end of the month for a couple days and the above info is helpful. I just feel like I need to have a better handle on all of this especially since I'm the only one. My dad's six years younger than my mom (78/72) and much younger in both body and spirit thank god. Still, this shit is so hard.

The good news is that now I don't think I'm allergic to my mother's cats. The bad news is that I think one of them has scabies (which would be what's causing the rashes on my hands and wrists). Then at work I just got back a set of massive and poorly documented changes to a document I'm working on.

This is really wicked of me, but I am sorely tempted right now to just return the cats to my mother and let her go her own way, in the hope that something catastrophic will happen. I thought I couldn't hate myself any more.

The good news: My mother has signed off on a will and medical and legal powers of attorney.
The bad news: I just tried talking to her again about cleaning out the house, only to be brushed off again. These cats are going to be with me for the rest of their lives Y/Y/Y?

Last week, I sat with my dad in a hospice facility in Florida for 8 hours every day for 6 days and watched my mother slowly die. She was completely unresponsive the entire time and we had no idea whether or not she knew we were there. The smell as her body began to shut down was something I will never forget. Nor is sitting on the floor and holding her hands so that I could look in her eyes on the off chance that she could see me or feel my presence as I told her it was OK to go. She must have lost 20 pounds in those six days. The way she looked the finally afternoon when the nursing aides came to turn her over was probably the most frightening thing I've ever seen. We got the call from the nurse that she'd passed about two hours after we left for the night. When we got to her room they'd placed a gold butterfly on the door and a rose in her hands. Hers was the first dead body I've ever seen and she was still warm. That was one week ago and today is my first day back at work. We had a very complicated relationship and she's been ill for a very long time. That said, this is the most intense and surreal experience.

i'm sorry to hear that enbb

i know what you mean by surreal as you describe something similar to what i felt when mine passed

thoughts are with you and your family

Very sorry indeed, ENBB. Sending best in such an upsetting time.

I'm so, so sorry ENBB. I watched my dad pass away slowly in hospice; like you, his was the first dead body I had ever seen and I have never been able to characterize the experience as good or bad, just IMMENSE, like being hit with a stray moon or something. Peace to you.

Love and peace, ENBB.

i'm so sorry E. we went through some of that with Mr Veg's mom.

I remember going to see her after they'd cut off all treatment. the change was so dramatic, she looked like a ghost almost. but her final hours brought all of us together in a way that we hadnt experienced as a family in a long time... and i felt a closeness with her that was sort of reassuring at the same time as being so sad and strange.

i know it's weird to say but i am glad you had that time with her <3

a minute or so after my dad passed, my aunt (she, my mom and me had been the only ones in the room) said 'he looks like a little baby' (which is not to say that the moment of passing was peaceful harps or anything; it wasn't) and she was otm

Although it might seem like a jarring note in the circumstances, I am glad to hear you were able to spend so many hours and days with your mom as she made the passage from life to death. I am certain it helped her to have you and your dad there so much of the time, and the immediacy and intensity of it will help both you and your dad assimilate and adjust to her departure. That adjustment can take a lot of unfamiliar shapes and you'll probably feel really weird at times, but the time you spent with her will mean a tremendous amount to you as time passes. My condolences.

just want to second everything aimless wrote, i witnessed this painful process w/my mom and then my dad years ago and over time those mixed-up memories eventually helped me heal and became not a comfort exactly but a central part of what i'll always hold close about both of them. beaming love and positive energy your way enbb.

i'm so sorry E -- i can't imagine how much more intense it was knowing that you (too) are an only. <3

condolences to you and family.

Sorry E

very sorry, E. I'm glad she was with her family in her final days. take care of yourself.

sorry for your loss, ENBB

My condolences, E.

Love and thoughts E

I rememeber reading about your family predicament over the years ENBB - so similar to my own. My deepest condolences. I hope you can find, in time, some serene closure .

May she rest well , my condolences.

Just realized I never said thank you for all the nice messages. Thank you. <3

how are you holding up, E?

Hey! I kept meaning to respond. I am . . . OK. Ish. Last week and this weekend were really really hard. The weirdest part though was that I was just sad and unmotivated and teary in a way I've never been. It wasn't this specific missing of my mom or thinking about her death just this overwhelming heaviness and it hits at the weirdest times and it can be so intense. At first I was confused because I've never felt this way before and didn't know how to process it but then I realized that it is grief and that this is normal. That doesn't make it any less hard or shitty but it helps to remind myself of that that and of the fact that I won't feel this way forever.

<3 <3
over time it sorta, calcifies? like it becomes a part of you without weighing you down. everyone's different though. it takes a lot of time
bendon hugs help i'm sure :)

I realized that it is grief and that this is normal.

Yes. A thousand times yes.

The thing that strikes me the most these days is how it almost doesn't even seem real that any of this happened. I know she's gone but the whole way it all happened made the actual event pretty traumatic and the days after that were such a whirlwind. I feel like I've been a weird daze all summer but lately I've been having these moments where I think "Holy shit, my mom died" but it still feels unreal somehow. I haven't been back to see my dad since I was there in June so maybe that's why - I don't actually notice her absence every day. I feel like I haven't been doing anything except going through the motions of being a person and it's been making me feel bad like I'm not strong enough or something. I know it's only been a few months. Everything has just been so hard for such a long time. I'm tired of it. Also, I don't feel well today so I'm feeling sorry for myself.

it's been making me feel bad like I'm not strong enough or something.

Older cultures than ours understood well how the death of loved ones affected the survivors and they evolved traditions that allowed families to cope with the aftermath. They often prescribed a set of activities that lasted a full year. You're only months into this and more or less afloat and on your own to deal with it. You just experienced one of life's most powerful and disturbing events. It is no wonder your mind still feels disturbed. Just be kind to yourself. Renew that kindness constantly. It's necessary. I wish you sufficient moments of peace to find how to piece this enormous event into your life and make it normal.

In my own case, my 92 year old mother is now in hospice care. I'm back to weekly visits again. Rather than having one terminal problem, all her systems are simply slowing drastically and rather gently fading out. She's not in much pain, but her slow cessation is evident from week to week. She now spends about 22 hours a day in bed. She is losing interest in anything but the intermittent visits from her children. Even then, she only wants to look at me, hold my hand and listen to me talk, although she is mostly blind and deaf now.

I suspect she'll drift along like this, emptying out bit by bit, for five or six more weeks. But this seems like one of the gentler ways to bow out, so I am glad of that.

Thank you, Aimless. Your words are very helpful. I'm sorry to hear about your mom. It's so hard though that does sound gentle which is definitely good.

visiting my parents at the jersey shore and my dad had a stroke this morning

i think it could have been much worse? we were there, the ambulance was super fast. but it's still bad

also i apologize to paul ryan for not using the power of the free market to unlock cheaper and better health care options. we were in a rush

oh no. I'm sorry. I was just listening to a radio show emphasizing that time is of the essence - thank goodness family was around. The wait to figure out what 'bad' is going to actually mean is so hard.

i'm sorry to hear about your dad! at least you are there for your mom.

aww mooks <3 and hugs

<3 mookie

Terrible. Sending best for you all.

<3 mookie, so sorry this has happened, best wishes to you all

also my belated condolences to enbb. i've always thought you were a very good daughter to both of your parents. i hope you find peace after your enormous loss <3

Sorry about your dad! I'll be thinking of you and your family.