2001: A Space Odyssey

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Dr Morbius why are you always wrong about everything?

The WOPR had the entire nuclear arsenal of the world at its disposal. It almost wiped out the human race. They couldn't shut it down, they had to teach it futility. That's a much, much more interesting character arc than HAL, and better armament to boot.

When I get my own digital projector and an apartment to fit it in, I'll be sure and netflix 2001 again and let you know how I feel afterwards. I am not optimistic.

(I also think Henry is right, AGAIN. Enrique didn't we used to get in fites on film threads? what went wrong?)

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 1 December 2005 14:39 (twenty years ago)

yeah we did: long story.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 1 December 2005 14:40 (twenty years ago)

Whatever bub, I ain't seen WG since 1983. (and when did you last see On Her Majesty's Secret Service? great D. Rigg and stuntwork, the rest godawful boring)

So is the ending of 2001 Kubrick's most optimistic? Is it, as John Simon dissed, "a shaggy God story"? Or is tracking human evolution as a series of steps engineered from Beyond the Infinite depressingly deterministic? And why do aliens like 18th-century French decor?

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 14:53 (twenty years ago)

hum. i think it is his most optimistic.

but i'm unsure abt evolution as a theory.

ok lol

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 1 December 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

the 18c decor is meant to represent 'rationalism'. and he spills the glass ----> rationalism = impossible ideal?

i was a riot at college

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 1 December 2005 14:55 (twenty years ago)

I read something linking the broken glass to Jewish weddings.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

it works on so many levels, man.

― Theorry Henry (Enrique), Thursday, 1 December 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

The rest (that I've seen) comes across as masturbatory rubbish. I AM STANLEY KUBRICK I AM SO FREAKING YOU OUT RIGHT NOW LOL. That's what I hear, in my head, during that stupid slow-motion blood spilling out of the walls shot in Shining.

That's a shame! I always find it interesting to see where different people draw the line beyond which everything becomes "pretentious" or "masturbatory".

― sleep (sleep), Thursday, 1 December 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

Esp from fans of Kill Bill. (The Shining is pompous tho -- but less so than Stephen King would've liked.)

Apparently the 2001 makeup people weren't considered for an Oscar because the pajama-clad Academy types didn't realize the apes were actors.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 15:31 (twenty years ago)

Haha. I guess it's pompous, but I think I have a high tolerance for that stuff, relatively speaking. But it's not like it's so busy going up its own ass that it's inaccessible, right?

― sleep (sleep), Thursday, 1 December 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

didn't planet of the apes win an oscar for makeup that same year?

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 1 December 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

yeah, i always wondered about the ape-makeup thing, and why it was so understated in film circles. i mean, make-up skills/latex compounds (not to mention CGI/post effects) have come a long way since then, but i still think the 2001 apes are the perfect man/ape hybrid. waaaay better than planet of the apes sytle.

although he did use a real chimp baby...

― Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Thursday, 1 December 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

Tried to read the book in the 5th grade and couldn't. But the Jack Kirby comic book was classic.

http://blogs.citypages.com/pscholtes/images/11111111%20Jack%20Kirby.jpg

I loved the movie so early and unconditionally that reading Pauline Kael's pan as an adolescent was an event. But she was so wrong...

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 1 December 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

Yes on Apes (it was a special award as there was as yet no makeup category). Of course the POTA actors had to talk so it was adifferent challenge, but still...

The 2001 apes were in Shepperton Studios -- the landscapes were rear projections.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 16:19 (twenty years ago)

did you see 2001 in a theater ever?

I have. It looks great, but it doesn't change everything else I find wrong with it. This is my issue with Kubrick almost en totale. Everything looks great (except most of the Shining but I'm not sure who to blame really for why the Shining is so awful, mainly I blame Nicholson), but that's...it...which there is something to be said for that but there is also something to be said for not making films like Eyes Wide Shut.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

I watched it in Cinerama too, at the Bradford Film and tv museum. It was amazing to look at, but that doesn't change the flaws in the film itself.

― Vicky (Vicky), Thursday, 1 December 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

I think my best comparison/contrast for this movie would probably be with something like L'Avventura or Red Desert, which are extraordinarily visually focused and very carefully composed, but I just feel have "more" to them than 2001 does.

And yeah the space baby thing was crap, I gotta be honest, that is totally awkward cinema IMO.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 16:50 (twenty years ago)

this is my favorite movie ever, pretty much.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 December 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

The shot where you're looking through astronaut Dave's eyes to old Dave, and Dave walks towards you and suddenly you realise young Dave is gone and OMG perspective shift from first-person-young-Dave to third-person-old-Dave! Literally the most breathtaking movie moment ever. For me.

― ledge (ledge), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

A friend hates Kubrick, except for this one.

I can understand the Starbaby not working for you, but "awkward"? If the finale shows the post-human evolutionary leap, how else would you show it? All the other options seem too mundane.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:04 (twenty years ago)

I agree that it's a difficult thing to show, how else would you do it, what is mundane versus what is exciting ("exciting" etc), BUT mainly it just makes me giggle and then makes me not want to watch it at all because I feel I should be taking it more seriously than I am, but I am NOT. I think it's the music, more so than the actual image, that does it in for me.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:08 (twenty years ago)

I much prefer TOTO's guitars as Muad'Dib rides the worm into the fortress walls. Atomics, as they say. I want to see THAT in the theater. Hell with this Kubrick nonsense.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:18 (twenty years ago)

Earth Astronauts got nothin on the Fremen of Arrakis y'all

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

maybe cuz the image and that minute of Thus Spake Zarathustra have been parodied endlessly?

(friend claims this is why I hate Brando in The Godfather, but I maintain it's because he's bad)

Dune, aghhh. Medieval-style sci-fi... me so sleeeepppyyy...

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

I've seen that in a theatre too. Trust me, you don't want to see it in a theatre. Unless you're seriously drunk.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

mang i like dune and 2001. i hate movies-as-competition shit.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:24 (twenty years ago)

They're finally going to release the 3-hour version Jan 31st. Hopefully with the sequence where they drown the baby sandworms to get 'em to cough up the water of life. That's pretty crucial.

How the hell did you get to see Dune in the theater? Man.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:24 (twenty years ago)

Brando is kind of bad in the Godfather, that's the exact moment in time where he becomes BRANDO teh JOKE in my mind. But OTOH I'm on record on this board as kind of disliking everything about the Godfather besides Al Pacino's performance and maybe Diane Keaton's.

I bought tickets to see Dune in a theatre. WTF?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)

Parody factor is a good point though, though in Brando's case he kind of parodies himself see also DeNiro and, uh, Pacino actually.

i hate movies-as-competition shit.

what do you mean?

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

He probably means that, like me, he likes most of the films that have been bashed by various people on this thread in order to praise other films.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:29 (twenty years ago)

i mean the whole comparison. "dune" and "2001" are totally different movies, and comparing them is pointless - not to mention the idea that one's better than the other when it's like apples and oranges! it's like ILM and the total "taking sides" bullshit. both of those movies stand fine on their own merits.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:30 (twenty years ago)

both of those movies stand fine on their own merits.

But as films go, Stence, you must admit that 2001 has the edge, no?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:32 (twenty years ago)

I wasn't trying to bring up competition. I was kind of thinking about silly music moments in sci-fi and movies I would put up on a big screen first, if I had a big screen in my house, ergo, DUNE.

I meant where the hell do they still show Dune in the theater! I guess not in Alabama or Tennessee or the Washington DC metro area.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:34 (twenty years ago)

there was a jack kirby 2001 comic?!?!

― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:36 (twenty years ago)

I've been mostly joking on this thread, but when has Kubrick come up with a joke as good as the WOPR (ohno popcult ref ohno!). And can someone explain why 2001 is better than his last two?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

Oh yes.

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:37 (twenty years ago)

I mean yes to the Kirby comic.

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)

They showed Dune at the St Marks Theater in 1984.

I was far more bored by the Herbert book -- Lynch slightly improved on it, if only by the brio with which Kenneth MacMillan popped pustules and devoured boys. Hundreds of pages on spice and worms...
(drooling, slackjawed...)

But yeah, Dune is not at all the kind of SF 2001 is.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:43 (twenty years ago)

Piece from the Jack Kirby Collector:

http://www.twomorrows.com/kirby/articles/312001.html

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

yes, hstencil, they are totally different movies but you could say that about any single movie ever made. How are you supposed to decide if you like or dislike a movie or where it stands in comparison to other films in the genre/style/era/etc without, well, comparing films? I don't understand why you keep coming on film threads to make that point. Especially since, yeah, I didn't get the impression Tom or Morbius were actualy COMPARING Dune and 2001.

xpost that book is unreadable. I'm not a big sci fi person though, really. The movie is about 4 hours of Kyle MacLachlan staring blankly which I'm mostly ok with. I like the fact that the disaster that was Dune actually managed to get the go-ahead for Blue Velvet from de Laurentiis.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

I did briefly tune into the Sci-Fi Channel Dune for some nearly naked villainous Matt Keeslar (as opposed to Sting, ick). Riding the worm, indeed.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:51 (twenty years ago)

x-post

Obviously, I disagree with that article on the '76 comic. Kirby's "lazy," "loose" style in the mid-'70s was a thing of almost abstract beauty.

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:51 (twenty years ago)

Ugh Sting shouldn't be cast in anything.

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

Brian Eno's theme for Dune completely mashes Thus Spake Zarathustra's fanfare in terms of simulatenous pomp and terror. It's fucking brilliant, actually. As are the OTT end credits with the crystal piano barf and the actors in costume standing next to their names. Totally sweet.

― TOMBOT, Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:53 (twenty years ago)

Is there anything you DON'T remember about Dune?? End credits? Piano barf??

― Allyzay must fight Zolton herself. (allyzay), Thursday, 1 December 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

But as films go, Stence, you must admit that 2001 has the edge, no?

well yeah, i did post earlier that it's my favorite film.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 1 December 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

Joshua??? Haha, is that the WarGames computer? You'd put a killer of astronauts up against something programmed by Matthew Broderick?!?

Hello! JOSHUA was totally designed by Dr. Stephen Falken. He, like, named it after his dead son or whatever. Sheesh.

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Thursday, 1 December 2005 18:05 (twenty years ago)

but when has Kubrick come up with a joke as good as the WOPR

The entire screenplays for Strangelove and Lolita? Well, in having Terry Southern and Nabokov write them, anyway.

― monkeybutler, Thursday, 1 December 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

That is to say, both screenplays are full of great jokes, but Kubrick didn't "come up with" them so much as he had great collaborative writers.

― monkeybutler, Thursday, 1 December 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

Nabokov later published his screenplay of Lolita -- because the movie script was written by Kubrick. Vlad receiving solo screen credit was apparently purely contractual.

Kubrick is described as an enthusiastic black jokester in conversation.

― Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 1 December 2005 20:22 (twenty years ago)

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