Katrina's aftermath

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Bush in acting like Bush shockah!

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

but christ, folks really are in a post-apocalyptic world down there now, aren't they? i wonder how the theories about how humanity would react(e.g. a reverting to tribalism) are playing out...

Subtract the water, and rewind to April 29th, 1992...
The place is Los Angeles.

http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0426/1420892.jpg

"Hi, ny name is Reginald De... OW!"

donut gon' nut (donut), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

Granted, the death toll from the L.A. Rodney King trail riots was FAR far less... so I'm not trying to equate the two.. but just sayin' that this isn't the first time America has had the "wow, it must be apocalyptic down there" gaze before.

donut gon' nut (donut), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:05 (twenty years ago)

Not to mention the even more intense Watts fires from decades before... Kent State 1970, etc.

donut gon' nut (donut), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

And oh yeah, New York City, September 11th, 2001.

donut gon' nut (donut), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:08 (twenty years ago)

i think this is the first time since the Chicago Fire in 1871 that an entire city might essentially be destroyed however

gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

sorry but posting that russian story as a sort of "selfish bastards" thing is fucking dumb. consulates and embassies release similar notices concerning nationals that they are responsible for following any major incident in a foreign country. just cos someone on an email list trawled thru russian news agency sites or it got posted on a blog doesnt mean its significant or newsworthy.

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

WWL is showing that people stole a milk truck and two postal service vehicles to drive out, and were apparently arrested. Shit, I don't know how to feel about that. Would you try them for a felony?

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:22 (twenty years ago)

how are they currently apprehending criminals?

stckhlm cnd (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

Meanwhile, I just heard assorted Weekly Standard editors crowing about how THEY paid their insurance so why should anyone give a fuck about or help people who choose to live in low lying cities or on/near fault lines.

Jesus, you look under the lowest sewer and they're still somewhere beneath, smirking.

Ian in Brooklyn, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:32 (twenty years ago)

>how are they currently apprehending criminals?<

They hit the freeway and were stopped by police. There was a wheelchair on top.

I'm sorry, I'd have to let them go. Its not like the USPS is expecting to get those back.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

i think this is the first time since the Chicago Fire in 1871 that an entire city might essentially be destroyed however

http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/info/1906/images/damage6.jpg

*COUGH*

The Original Jimmy Mod: Waiting for the return of the Lohan's titties (The Famo, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

alright, that one too. and i want to amend that to "american city", since obviously Japan and Europe were razed to the ground wholesale in places.

gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

in WW2

gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

the main concern of mine with the looting is all the guns people have stolen. even if they don't use them, they should be punished somehow -- that's a serious crime.

stckhlm cnd (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:42 (twenty years ago)

Watching the Interdictor feed, you can see larger groups of people now just walking, possibly looking for dry ground and just to get away from the city. The small trickles are moving to groups of 6-10, walking by regularly.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

The tough part with punishing those people is to find out what guns were taken and where they are.

edit: the governor of the Parish of St. Bernard is begging on WWL for help from anyone for boats, food, and water. Its horrifying.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:45 (twenty years ago)

Mentioned upthread, but Anchorage, Alaska got levelled by the Prince William Sound Earthquake in 1964. Not really a large city at the time, sure..

This, however, is probably the first time most of us have seen an American city undergo attrition due to natural causes in our lifetimes, though.

donut gon' nut (donut), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

"natural" = weather & seismic related phenomena

donut gon' nut (donut), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

We have an inside source in the NOPD who says that command and control is in chaos. He reports that command lapses more than 24 hours between check-ins, and that most of the force are "like deer in the headlights."

i am sorry but that just about gave me a heart attack. can you imagine?

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:57 (twenty years ago)

take notes - this is probably what it will be like when a dirty bomb goes off in a major city.

vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 22:58 (twenty years ago)

that's sort of what Ted Koppel said to close out Nightline last night. grim but true, probably.

gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:03 (twenty years ago)

Anyone else see something from the PM (or something) of the Netherlands (also mostly below sea limit), crowing about their superior pump system? Even if he's right, I mean, jeez.

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:05 (twenty years ago)

That doesn't sound right to me. From what I know of a dirty bomb, the bomb itself wouldn't be big enough to cause a lot of destruction. It's the radioactive shrapnel that would cause the evacuations. I have the impression that a dirty bomb evacuation would probably be closer to the day of 9/11 than Katrina.

recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:06 (twenty years ago)

So, it's a special case there, much to the misery of driving Atlantans' wallets.

I had to go to a doctor's appointment in Atlanta today, and it took me three hours to drive back to my suburban home (it normally takes 20-30 minutes!) thanks to people lining up at gas stations like it's 1973

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:08 (twenty years ago)

The news in San Francisco this morning showed people filling up their SUVs with grimaces on their faces. The anchorwoman said people are budgeting for the same amount for gas, but will be eating less/cheaper.

Makes sense.

recovering optimist (Royal Bed Bouncer), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

The Netherlands doesn't have hurricanes crashing into its shores. That's a big time heel move. I still love his country though.

The dirty bomb would be nothing like this. No one would stay. They'd just get the fuck out pronto before dying. There's really no terrorist comparison to this, short of a city getting 24 hours warning that it was going to be destroyed in some way, and then the terrorists went ahead and destroyed it.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:11 (twenty years ago)

I work at a radio station. The show that I produce is usually a sports show, but today, with the Little Rock area becoming a refuge destination, we basically spent three hours reading phone numbers for food banks and refuge centers.

I just got off the phone with a guy who evacuated with three other families from Jefferson Parish. They planned to be gone for three days. Now, it's three months. He was pretty level-headed, but I could tell that he could see a breaking point somewhere distantly in the horizon.

He knows that he's lucky. He's out of town and he's got a room at a hotel. But the money has to be watched. He described how he and his family went and hung out at the mall for the afternoon, just to get away from the hotel room and television. How surreal it was to be standing around the food court of some mall in North Little Rock while his home was underwater.

And he's got weeks of this, at least, to look forward to. I asked him what else besides food and shelter he and his fellow refugees might need, and his immediate answer was JOBS. Jobs so that the immediate money worry wouldn't be so bad, but also to alleviate boredom. To feel like a human.

I didn't know what to tell him. I felt like I was watching someone about to choke and I don't know CPR. I know about the property damage and the rescue costs and of course all of the lives that have been lost, but there's also going to be some emotionally torn people all over this country for quite some time. I just wonder how we all are going to deal with this.

Merry Christmas.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:19 (twenty years ago)

omg. who is this N4ancy Gr4ce on CNN Headline News??! Her show keeps having a countdown in the corner showing when they'll return to coverage of the Missing Teen in Aruba...

my name is john. i reside in chicago. (frankE), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:22 (twenty years ago)

Nancy Grace is the devil. They moved her over there to try and keep CNN away from the garbage shows and stay on hard news (which was utterly brilliant and I love love love it). She's basically useless as a human being.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:29 (twenty years ago)

Anyone else see something from the PM (or something) of the Netherlands (also mostly below sea limit), crowing about their superior pump system? Even if he's right, I mean, jeez.

dear netherlands: send us your best pump-building manpower.

stckhlm cnd (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

President Bush flew over the ravaged city and parts of Mississippi's hurricane-blasted coastline in Air Force One. Turning to his aides, he said: "It's totally wiped out. ... It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground."

gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)

WWL: Mayor of New Orleans has declared Martial Law in Orleans Parish: "We won't have to worry about civil rights, or reading Miranda rights."

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:35 (twenty years ago)

oh good.

gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:35 (twenty years ago)

xpost

TWO TIMES!

The Original Jimmy Mod: Waiting for the return of the Lohan's titties (The Famo, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:36 (twenty years ago)

haha "on the ground" = nine feet below the water level!

stckhlm cnd (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

"This tragedy is like the worst I've ever seen. Times two or something."

gear (gear), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

water is so devastating-looking from the air.

stckhlm cnd (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:41 (twenty years ago)

Is there anything a broke-ass chick in NE Georgia can do to help (aside from, like, joining a prayer chain)? Is a piddly monetary donation to the Red Cross worth it?

emilys, Wednesday, 31 August 2005 23:53 (twenty years ago)

The dirty bomb would be nothing like this. No one would stay. They'd just get the fuck out pronto before dying.

-- Alan Conceicao (deadandrestles...), September 1st, 2005 5:11 PM. (Alan Conceicao)

first of all, i sort of doubt that. "most" would leave, but "most" people already left new orleans, too.

second, the comparison i mean to make is: 100,000 refugees, uninhabitable city, chaos at the city level, frustration at the state level, ineffectual federal government.

vahid (vahid), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:02 (twenty years ago)

I have the impression that a dirty bomb evacuation would probably be closer to the day of 9/11 than Katrina.
-- recovering optimist (christbaitrisin...), September 1st, 2005 5:06 PM. (Royal Bed Bouncer)

did they evacuate manhattan? seriously, if they did i wasn't aware of it.

vahid (vahid), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

i guess it would be like the humanitarian emergency / logistical nightmare of hurricana katrina plus the national hysteria of 9/11 x 10.

vahid (vahid), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

Is a piddly monetary donation to the Red Cross worth it?

It's exactly what they need right now, and no amount is piddly.

Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

>first of all, i sort of doubt that. "most" would leave, but "most" people already left new orleans, too.<

Well, people didn't leave the hurricane zone because they assumed they could survive it based on past experience or that the hurricane would miss. Telling people that any sort of nuclear attack has occurred would cause them to completely lose their minds, simply because that's how people have been educated. Weathermen = sometimes wrong, nuclear anything = you fucking die fast. I'm sure a couple people who were less than mentally competent would stay, but nowhere near the amounts that stayed in New Orleans.

Additionally, anywhere they moved, and in fact, still in the city of NY or where ever, there would still be an infrastructure. Right now, there's so much damage in the surrounding areas that there's no phones, no electricity, etc. No way to communicate, and no way to get around, because water covers everything. People would be able to use trains, boats, their cars, and feet to get out. Right now, they're trapped in their attics because there's 12 feet of water.

Refugee wise and the logistics of having to clean up the city, yes, that would be similar. I think the likelihood of violence as we see it wouldn't occur, or if it did, it would do so immediately.

Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:15 (twenty years ago)

I'm wondering--since I wasn't in NO at the time--just how well the city's residents were warned. I mean, saying "mandatory evacuations for everyone" is one thing, but were they told specifcally that "the entire city could flood and certain neighborhoods could be under 20ft of water"?

gear (gear), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:19 (twenty years ago)

Anyone else see something from the PM (or something) of the Netherlands (also mostly below sea limit), crowing about their superior pump system?

hahaha, the Dutch pump system is small potatoes compared to the one New Orleans has. It would get wiped out by a strong category 1 hurricane. After they had their disaster in the 50s and decided to get serious about flood control, guess which American city they turned to for advice and the latest technology?

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:32 (twenty years ago)

Is a piddly monetary donation to the Red Cross worth it?

a piddly monetary donation can feed a lot of people!

stckhlm cnd (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:35 (twenty years ago)

I very much appreciate the links (espcially Ned's) that point to news and blogs that explain the damage. I'm in Baton Rouge, and have been without power since 8:30 Monday morning. Minor inconvenience, and got it back two hours ago. The only photos i've seen of the devastation have been in the newspapers. Bizarrely, i've been working as if nothing has changed.

My aunt's house is destroyed. I don't know the condition of family in Algiers, or several friends that live down there. None of the phones work. Cell phones are near useless. All circuits are overloaded.

SWAT teams are being sent into New Orleans. I saw several of them at a convenience store up the street an hour ago, one of them wearing two pistols on his belt, gunfighter style.

There are paranoid rumors about looters spreading to LaPlace and Gonzales, and it's pissing me off.

I have a general understanding of what was going on, but the reality is still sinking in.

badgerminor (badgerminor), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

about the paranoid rumors... what i've heard from customers are more about mass hysteria than actual incidents.

Also, a lot of people have been buying maps, and plan on going into New Orleans whether it's permitted or not. Some of these people are going vigilante.

On the bright side, there's a lot of charitable work going on. By the LSU fieldhouse, there are throngs of volunteers gathered, and mountains of goods donated for the evacuees.

badgerminor (badgerminor), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

vigilante, great. this is where some people use some isolated incidents as a fucking excuse to go to war, right?

gear (gear), Thursday, 1 September 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)


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