ILX Poker Players Unite

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sounds great. how many players?

ken c (ken c), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:03 (twenty years ago)

a few weeks ago i won a $30 buy-in tourney on poker room, raking in a nice $900. since then i've played almost exclusively the multi-table tourneys, and have lost most of it, even though i seem to finish in the money about a third of the time.

also, the fastest way to make (and lose!) money on pr is the omaha 8 tables. after going on a run where i made $500 in two days playing .50/.50, i then lost about $600 in about the same stretch. ugly stuff.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:05 (twenty years ago)

Blimey Yancey, that's good going - what's your MTT strategy? I seem to end up just camping, then not getting any value from my premiums. Which is odd as I'm semi-loose-aggressive at (shorthanded at least) cash games.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

i tend to see a lot of flops early -- you'll find a lot of weak players fishing in the early going. i push hard on those early pots and hope the fish don't suck out on me. i try to build a bankroll of about $4k before the blinds hit the $50/$100 mark -- this allows me to wait on good hands and to push hard enough to scare people out when i hit them. inevitably, i always lose big on some really nice hand -- like flopping two pair, trips or a straight -- that i don't push hard enough, and allow someone to suck out. it's one thing to maximize the value out of hands, but it's another to let someone steal it from you.

my final rule is never ever ever (unless i'm on a blind or up against someone shortstacked) play an ace with anything less than an eight as a kicker. i will make some exceptions if suited, but i have lost way too many pots with shitty kickers.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:13 (twenty years ago)

obviously those rules are contingent on getting good cards and not getting unlucky, so they are by no means foolproof. but i have had success with that. (if you get bad cards be patient, while taking occassional stabs at good-sized pots.)

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

Ha - is it any wonder I tend to be timid early on & get stuck w/ the blinds equaling one-tenth my stack before the 1st hour's out? It's because of assmasters playing 94 offsuit non-blinded and flopping 94A rainbows when I have AJ, and me betting the farm. Gotta play the cards, tho, not the shit luck or shittier players (which all my bad bad beats have "taught" me to do - "oh god, AK off got busted the last 3 times I played when I was put AI preflop; I should fold").

Yesterday, I was blessed w/ AQ off right before the button in the first hand of a tourney. 3 people called, someone raised 2x the blind, someone called THAT, and then it was my turn to bet. Something tells me I should've re-raised, but I just called the small raise, and the flop (88x or something) didn't hit me, so when the raiser & the first caller started probing the pot, I ran. I think a Q came on the river, which would've won, of course.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:32 (twenty years ago)

don't forget to calculate pot odds! that should tell you whether to call in a spot like that, david. i.e., say, a $700 pot w/ a flop w/ garbage but only a $60 bet to call. it's ABSOLUTELY worth hanging in there in that case, especially if you have overcards and there's nothing paired on the board. HOWEVER, i never hang in for, say, a straight draw when there's also a flush draw in the board. if i'm on a draw, it needs to be for the best one.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:34 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I always ignore pot odds in the heat of the moment, or get stymied by them - "so I got QT suited w/ an KJ4 2 to the flush I can't get; pot's $300; someone bet $75, so that's 4:1 pot odds; I have 8 outs w/ 30 cards left - oh, shit, it's the cards THAT I DON'T KNOW, so that's 47:8 = 6:1; fuck, is that good odds or bad?; oh shit the timer better call; oh no don't lag don't lag don't lag F******************CK"

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, my strategery now (until I have more money to burn): play the $5 MTTs for the cheap reps, regain confidence, hopefully win a wee bit, and then step it up buy-in-wise once I get back in the black. And AVOID THE 40K REBUY.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

oh rebuy tourneys are certain death! never play one!

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 13:57 (twenty years ago)

Ha! I've actually had all my recent success come via rebuys. Ideally, I only buy in once (depending on how much you're willing to burn), and ride out the first hour playing the table - if it's loose, tighten up; if it's tight, let it fly a bit. And, of course, hope I don't get stuck w/ the Asshat All-Inster willing to risk a stack on any damn thing because s/he has money to burn. Getting stuck with a loopy freak in an UNLIMITED rebuy tourney when you're getting stuck w/ middling cards (like T8 suited, or KJ off) and a guy to your left raising every other hand like he's got pocket trips is no fun @ all.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 October 2005 14:04 (twenty years ago)

Yancey, what kind of hands do you see early flops with? And how important is position? How much of a raise will you call with sub-premium hands? Do you avoid the first orbit or two because that's when maniacs will be pushing anything to try and double up?

Sorry for all the questions - I'm really struggling with this and I tend to play like David says, ultra-rock-like until I'm being eaten by the blinds and my fold equity is almost worthless against all the players with 5-10x my stack.

I just can't get my head round a rebuy tourney - even though I can be quite Laggy I am naturally cautious, and thinking ah well, I'll go all in with QTo cos I can always rebuy just doesn't work for me. I'll stick to nice, cheap, unthreatening freezeouts I think :)

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 17 October 2005 14:36 (twenty years ago)

While I'm not Yancey, here's how I see it (&, yeah, position is very very key) (& please note that I probably don't follow my own advice):

- early position: suited connectors, AJ up, pocket pairs TT or higher; I usually raise w/ KK or AA or AK, tho I think accepted knowledge sez to either raise minimally or slowplay w/ those hands.

- middle position: suited connectors, face-carded connectors, pocket pairs; maybe raise w/ KQ suited or something similar, always raise w/ face-carded pp?

- late position: depending on what's preceded, go for it w/ just about any hand that has potential, and put down the hammer if you got the good stuff w/ lots of callers

If I'm off-base, someone w/ skillz plz let me know! (Of course, you'll need to switch it up to keep people honest, esp. in tourneys.)

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 17 October 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

that sounds good, david. when i'm on the button i'll play pretty much anything, provided there aren't any raises greater than, say, $60. (8-2, 7-2, etc excepted of course) but those suited connectors (7-8, 6-7, 9-10) can be BIG MONEY. but beware the flushes -- someone might be in there with a better one. but you should get a strong sense from betting patterns if you have it or not.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

FINALLY: if you raise with a middling pocket pair (4s, 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s) and a flop hits with face cards and you had more than one caller, make ONE PLAY at the flop with a big bet, and if you get called or raised, run. going into the hand you were the favorite, but once you see paint you can safely assume that you are an underdog. against one other person you can push harder, especially if they only call rather than raise. if you get a calling station to the river, consider trying for all in, unless the player has been proven to overplay weak hands, in which case his bottom-pair on the board (like 10s when there's a,k and j on the board and yr playing 8s) will take you out.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

pls note that i break all of these rules all of the time but seem to do best when i follow them

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Monday, 17 October 2005 15:33 (twenty years ago)

If I wasn't skittish before about online gaming, I am now after reading about the dudes who play four or five hands at the same table via unique telephone lines.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Monday, 17 October 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

Things I just learned tonight:

1) When you have 3 people in a pot, and one goes AI pre-flop, you're supposed to check your remaining opponent to the river - it's the "ethical" thing to do.

2) When you have T8 suited, and the turn gives you a Q-high straight, don't bet w/ it, because the other guy's gonna have KT suited and take your chips.

2a) Losing this hand is proof that you, Mr. Bet With One Guy All In, are unethical, rude, and got what you deserved.

2b) Thinking that this "check to river" thing is chickenshit nonsense is wrong wrong wrong. You got what you deserved. Prepare for some bad luck.

3) When you're dealt AQ suited the very next hand in early position, FOLD because there's someone waiting across the table w/ AK. DO NOT raise 4x the blind and then go AI when the paint-free flop comes.

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 04:13 (twenty years ago)

Note to self: LEARN HOW TO READ STRAIGHT DRAWS

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 04:15 (twenty years ago)

#1 is bullshit.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 04:26 (twenty years ago)

Tell that to the melonheaded namby-pamby shitwits I play against! This is the SECOND TIME that nonsense has come up - the first time (when I once again deigned to bet in such a situation), half the table was like, "yeah, man, WTF?" and I was like "no, YOU WTF? do you want to WIN CHIPS, or do you want to play La La Check-n-Fold?"

Please note that I believe #2 and #3 are bullshit as well (tho I'm at fault in #2) (at fault for forgetting I have the luck of a dead black cat under a ladder).

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 14:43 (twenty years ago)

i wouldn't go 4x the blind with AQ suited full stop

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

pot odds smot odds.

bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

i love me some implied odds

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

A rule that came up the other night about flushes - Let's say that K-Q-J-8 of diamonds are showing. One player has the 6 and another has the 5 of diamonds. Both have flushes.

One side of the table says that Player 1 should win the pot because his flush is made up of higher cards (6 over 5). The other side says that the flush is judged by its highest card, in this case the Ace, and the other four cards are irrelevant. The two players would split the pot.

Apparently, the TV shows play like the latter, but it still nags me that the first player might've had a better hand.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

in my new house i have a partially finished man basement which is going to be converted into a poker room. only two more weeks.

bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

One side of the table says that Player 1 should win the pot because his flush is made up of higher cards (6 over 5). The other side says that the flush is judged by its highest card, in this case the Ace

where did the Ace come from?

yeah, rules like that should be defined beforehand.

ken c (ken c), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

The five best cards count, so if one player's 5th best diamond is a 6 it beats another's 5. Full stop.

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

That "only the high card in a flush matters" rule seems kinda silly. The first player SHOULD have the better hand - why should the "kicker" in a flush be treated any differently than a "kicker" in a non-flush?

Yeah! What Markelby said!

David R. (popshots75`), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

I wrote "Ace" instead of K. I have no short-term memory anymore. WHICH REALLY HELPS IN POKER.

I did think that the "a flush is a flush" rule didn't ring right. However, I play with a bunch of dudes who watch WPT and ESPN2 poker all the time, and they said that's how the pro's do it.

Well, just because the American League in baseball has a Designated Hitter doesn't mean that makes it right.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 16:36 (twenty years ago)

i am generally in favor of the "check it down" rule in tourneys, simply because it sucks if someone bluffs at the pot, gets everyone else to fold, and then loses to the all-in player, thereby tripling them up and prolonging the game, costing everyone else money, etc. but this is by no means a standard poker rule.

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

If I have a good hand think that I can win the hand, I want to squeeze as much blood out of that turnip as possible. If I've got four aces, no frickin' way am I going to sit there and check the remaining opponent.

Someone who would bluff with a bad hand in that situation likely wouldn't last long at the table anyway.

Pleasant Plains /// (Pleasant Plains ///), Wednesday, 19 October 2005 16:55 (twenty years ago)

Yup, I'll always bet if I think I have a good chance at having the winning hand - and I will bet hard so that the showdown is just me vs initial all-inner if I think I'm vulnerable.

So - I got my first money finish on Saturday night! 5th in a Pokerroom $5.50 MTT - I beat 450 players to get there :) Annoyingly, I was actually chip leader with only 5 left, but a mixture of bad luck and mediocre play crippled me before my 66 was beaten by an AKo who made his flush dammit. The prize was $113 - the real money started at 4th, grr. Still, I'm pleased really.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 24 October 2005 12:01 (twenty years ago)

Congrats, Mark!

I suck ass. Lost @ a ring table w/ 22 when a 2 flopped but a big stack (w / 33) chased my bets to the river to get a 7-high straight. Was dealt AQ off early in a tourney when the folks directly to my right were dealt AK suited and AA, and went AI on a questionable flop because I thought the big stack (w/ AA, of course) was full of it, and I'm stupid. And lost w/ 99 because my trips came on the flop w/ two suited cards and some loose-betting shitwit (and the other guy in the hand) went AI four to the flush after I bet half the pot AND THE FLUSH HIT OF COURSE BECAUSE GOD FORBID AI BIG STACKED FLUSH CHASING SLAPHEADS SHOULD LOSE TO ME.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 24 October 2005 12:51 (twenty years ago)

the other day i won a load of chips from betting high on the flop after some dude went all in, another dude called me with his crap hand, i lost the main pot to the all in man, but the side pot was way bigger.

ken c (ken c), Monday, 24 October 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

David, why do you never tell us of your good wins that MUST outnumber the shitty beats you always seem to suffer? Cos you'#re clearly a decent player - are you too reckless? Do you refuse to fold hands that you know are probably beat but dammit you've got KK and you ain't folding that?

p.s. you got a problem with slapheads? ;)

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 24 October 2005 12:57 (twenty years ago)

fold your hands child you play like a peasant

ken c (ken c), Monday, 24 October 2005 13:00 (twenty years ago)

Do you refuse to fold hands that you know are probably beat but dammit you've got KK and you ain't folding that?

That's part of it (cf. me get AK suited, me get 2p but there's the straight if the caller has a ten, and looky HE GOT TEN, BUT I HAVE BIG SLICK SO ME GO FOR IT) (or me get & raise with QQ, A flops, me bet big and get whacked by jerk playing A4 off). I'm reckless at inopportune times, and play close-to-the-vest when I should open things up.

My favorite moment yesterday = I have TT on the button, raise w/ it, get three callers. Flop & turn reveal 2 flush possibilities but no overcards, but the guys to my left (I'm the button) call my flop bet, and are reraising each other on the turn, so I skedaddle, thinking my TT is beat (because of all the times I've been waxed by a higher PP). They end up AI. One guy was playing Q4 off, the other was playing J7 off, and won w/ a pair of 7s. I got wanged by the flush-chasers soon after.

Which is to say: I'm good enough to get into trouble I should be smart enough to avoid, and when my decentness results in a good read, I get wanged (or, at least, I remember the wangs).

Ken kiss my arp. :)

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 24 October 2005 13:06 (twenty years ago)

OK, here's a feel-good story (where I probably made the wrong move):

Tourney situmation. Dealt AK off just before the button. One caller, directly after the BB. I slowplay the sucka. Button calls, SB calls.

Flop comes 5K2 rainbow - happy am I, yes? SB (a large-stacked fellow - 2x what I have right now) bets the minimum. One guy folds. I reraise 4x that. Button folds. SB calls.

Turn reveals a Q; vague flush possibility (think it matched the 2). So, right now, I'm thinking that Slappy McSlappington is playing either Kx or just chasing whatever - I've seen him stick around pots before, which is why his stack's kinda big. He checks to me. I go AI, trying to either scare him off or (hopefully) have him call w/ Kx and is meat. He calls, and turns over 52 off. Dude flopped 2 pair. Of course.

And then a Q comes out on the river, giving me the better 2 pair, and letting me escape w/ my hand covering my ass. I think I lose later on to a pair of Jokers.

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 24 October 2005 13:31 (twenty years ago)

David, you HAD to fold on that TT hand - it's not even a close call, assuming you put in a decent sized flop bet. So don't beat yourself up about playing perfect poker :)

As for the feelgood hand, yes, I think you marginally made a mistake going all-in as only a hand that beats you will call. Having said that, had you bet the pot and been raised - what then? At least there were no more decisions to make.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 24 October 2005 13:33 (twenty years ago)

Yeah - I should've just probed, not pushed in like that. It wasn't a smart move if I had the nuts (as the chances he'd call would be slim), and if I was beat (which I was), he would call. As it stood, he was probably going to reraise any bet I made (given that my flop bet = HELLO I HAVE A KING).

David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 24 October 2005 13:40 (twenty years ago)

I am gradually excising non-necessary all-ins from my game, but it's tough, especially after a couple of beers and/or bad beats. My lay-downs are getting better too - even though I'm sure I'm throwing away a few winning pots, I'd bet my bottom dollar that I'm avoiding losing a hell of a lot more.

Markelby (Mark C), Monday, 24 October 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

congrats, markelby!

last night i played in the $50+4 us daily. 400 entrants. i ended up finishing 16th, losing on a hand i probably shouldn't have played. i had about 10,000 chips -- average at the time -- and blinds were up to 500/1000. dude to my right had been going all in every hand for a while, and had moved his stack up to 20,000 as a result. i'm on the big blind, he's on the small blind, and no one else calls. he raises pre-flop to $6000, or over half my stack. i had Q-10 of spades, and after deliberating, i decided to re-raise all-in pre-flop. he calls and shows 9-9. i hit nothing on the flop, turn or river, and i'm out, winning $200. i was so close to folding the hand and living to fight another day, but i was convinced he was just trying to steal my blind. argh. i so wanted that $4000 first place!

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 12:52 (twenty years ago)

Still, pretty impressive! Where was this - a live game? Or do you play online (and if so where)?

I might have done the same - certainly my last two attempts at MTTs, including the big one above, ended for me with marginal decisions rather than big suckouts or obvious mistakes.

In other poker news, London's most famous cardroom, the Gutshot club, may be forced to shut down :(

Markelby (Mark C), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

I've been playing super aggressive lately. SUPER.

bingo (Chris V), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 14:00 (twenty years ago)

this was at pokerroom. i haven't been able to play in a live game in two months! (which is good, since i lost $300 the last time i did!)

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Wednesday, 26 October 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

won 3 single table things in a row now! sweet $150

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 27 October 2005 18:45 (twenty years ago)

what's everyone's username again? i'm ygstri

Jams Murphy (ystrickler), Thursday, 27 October 2005 19:01 (twenty years ago)

on pokerroom? kenjuggle i think

ken c (ken c), Thursday, 27 October 2005 19:16 (twenty years ago)

letdown08

bingo (Chris V), Friday, 28 October 2005 08:53 (twenty years ago)


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