I'm less inclined to blame Clinton herself than the Democratic Party as a whole. The had 4/6 Presidencies and a lot of Congressional control and real wages/inequality/etc. have not been strongly combatted. "But Republicans obstruct" is a lousy slogan and difficult for people to comprehend, particularly when your own party has played a part in killing things that would help.
Democrats have not shown themselves inclined to support even vaguely radical solutions, the kind of things on which they might get beaten but can point to real ideas - die on the hill of a public option/single-payer, living wage fights, minimum basic incomes, fighting for unionization. Bernie's low level social democracy struck a chord and seemed wild because our 'left' party hasn't been on board with things even right-wing European parties generally accept.
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, December 16, 2016 1:50 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
agreed
― marcos, Friday, 16 December 2016 18:55 (seven years ago) link
Dan -- I think there was some talk of that in the U.S. Politics thread.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 18:55 (seven years ago) link
man alive xp that is also very true
― marcos, Friday, 16 December 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link
I mean David Brock who thinks ShareBlue is going to become a "Breitbart of the Left", Donna Brazile with her "we need to increase the popular vote in Chicago" strategy, I'm not sure unlimited money in these people's hands would win an election.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 18:58 (seven years ago) link
And I do want to be really circumspect here. I was absolutely a Bernie supporter, but I don't want to fall into a trap of just thinking "Oh since they lost it means doing things my way is right." I'm not convinced throwing everything away and starting over gets us closer to winning elections. Just because their mealy-mouthed centrist candidate didn't win doesn't mean any left candidate would win. Bernie might have under these unique circumstances, but I don't know if he'd beat a reasonably likeable, moderate Republican tbqh.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:01 (seven years ago) link
i was bummed that people like david plouffe and axelrod didn't join her campaign in an official capacity but then i guess plouffe was wrong like everybody else
― marcos, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:02 (seven years ago) link
Were they asked to? I sometimes get the feeling there's still beef there, at least with Axelrod.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:09 (seven years ago) link
I occasionally listen to Axelrod's podcast, and I thought he sounded a little smug about Clinton's loss, although he always sounds so smug it's hard to tell.
Axelrod brought up Hillary being a cold public figure in every episode of his podcast
― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:14 (seven years ago) link
https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/15/the-government-body-that-oversees-the-security-of-voting-systems-was-itself-hacked/
― 龜, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:15 (seven years ago) link
cool
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:16 (seven years ago) link
wapo now saying that the fbi and the cia agree that the hacks were intended to benefit trump
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:36 (seven years ago) link
It's also so classically Vox to be like "Her loss clearly didn't relate to economic issues, she said the word economy a lot!"
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, December 16, 2016 12:55 PM (forty-nine minutes ago)
data journalism, baby!
― k3vin k., Friday, 16 December 2016 19:38 (seven years ago) link
lol
― marcos, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:42 (seven years ago) link
also is anyone watching the press conference, I am sitting in a doctor's office
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:44 (seven years ago) link
With every day this Russia stuff just gets worse and worse. It is hard to comprehend the FBI and CIA agreeing that Russia intervened to assist Donald Trump, and nothing coming of that. This seems major. It seems paramount that team Trump be investigated to see if they had any connections to the leak or leaker. Cooperate in any way with the Russians to hack the DNC is akin to Watergate.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:45 (seven years ago) link
"well actually, according to this ngram..."
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:45 (seven years ago) link
It would be much worse than Watergate imo
― Treeship, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:46 (seven years ago) link
still i feel like not much is going to come of this..... if it benefits the GOP and they are the dominant party then what the fuck is gonna happen?
― marcos, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:47 (seven years ago) link
yeah nothing will come of this
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:49 (seven years ago) link
'dying on the hill' of public option/single-payer not actually so useful for people who couldn't get health care. what people seem to forget is that passing obamacare was a die on the hill moment - and most of his presidency was us dealing with the fallout after 2 fairly progressive and productive years of american government.
― iatee, Friday, 16 December 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, December 16, 2016 2:44 PM (six minutes ago
aren't you always sitting in a doctor's office
― k3vin k., Friday, 16 December 2016 19:51 (seven years ago) link
today I am a patient!!
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:52 (seven years ago) link
Did someone just faint? Why are they calling for a doctor?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:23 (seven years ago) link
Nevermind. Sorted.
(Even with stuff like that I can't help but think Trump would turn this into a disaster).
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:24 (seven years ago) link
― marcos
you mean beyond the collapse of democracy as a viable political system?
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:25 (seven years ago) link
like he said: if it benefits the gop,
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:26 (seven years ago) link
didn't watch obama's address but the reaction from liberal twitter is not good
― k3vin k., Friday, 16 December 2016 20:27 (seven years ago) link
Obama being the wrong kind of don't give a fuck.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:29 (seven years ago) link
guess he doesn't care about his legacy after all
― Οὖτις, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:31 (seven years ago) link
he does come across a tad defeatist, but I can't really blame him tbh. All these q's of journalists basically begging him to tell this and that to Trump in the transition. He can say it, but no chance in hell Trump is gonna listen.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:35 (seven years ago) link
O hay I see Hannity (and surely many others) are calling out a mythical 'alt-left' now. These fuckers play the 'rubber, meet glue' game like they've been eight-years-old forever.
― Froyo On My Slacks (Old Lunch), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:37 (seven years ago) link
I assume this 'alt left' is BLM and their legions of inspired cop killing followers
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:39 (seven years ago) link
good for obama for not helping anyone pretend this isn't happening.
― difficult listening hour, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:43 (seven years ago) link
i was pretty let down by his press conference. he just seemed... low. defeated.
― homosexual II, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:46 (seven years ago) link
Per Corey Robin, reactionary assholes have had no problem in parroting & perverting reformer or progressive language for like 4+ decades now.
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:48 (seven years ago) link
I'm watching it now. He's being extra careful, more "uhs" than usual
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:51 (seven years ago) link
But he was firm about Putin's involvement and condemning the right for propagating fake news and for loving Putin
― The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:52 (seven years ago) link
Given the context and the weight of this transition, I'm somewhat impressed that Obama is able to hold a press conference at all without going full Budd Dwyer.
― Froyo On My Slacks (Old Lunch), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:52 (seven years ago) link
He sounded very much done with all this shit, and maybe a little resentful that people are abandoning him for literally the worst alternative.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:54 (seven years ago) link
Kinda curious what Joe Biden's last press conference would sound like
― THE SKURJ OF FAKE NEWS. (kingfish), Friday, 16 December 2016 20:55 (seven years ago) link
Just a long sigh.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:56 (seven years ago) link
Still watching this btw, press q's now. Earlier he said something about how it's wrong to see democrats as 'latte sipping pc people'. Just now he took a sip of what I think was... a latte.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 20:56 (seven years ago) link
He should've very pointedly and exaggeratedly sipped his latte while making a jerking off motion with the other hand.
― Froyo On My Slacks (Old Lunch), Friday, 16 December 2016 21:03 (seven years ago) link
Lol.
Suppose this moment had to come to throw out the cliche that despite this lackluster appearance, I too will miss this great Kenian.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 21:05 (seven years ago) link
according to lester holt there at the end, that was the longest obama press conference
― Karl Malone, Friday, 16 December 2016 21:08 (seven years ago) link
I went to the loo twice during it. Presidential bladder tbh.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 21:11 (seven years ago) link
Haven't seen the press conference to judge the tone for myself, but if I had to guess why he seems defeated, I would assume that a month of trying to ease his successor's transition and ultimately coming to the same conclusion as everyone else who's dealt with the douche that he doesn't give a fuck about learning or understanding anything probably has a little something to do with it.
― Froyo On My Slacks (Old Lunch), Friday, 16 December 2016 21:13 (seven years ago) link
He sounded very much done with all this shit, and maybe a little resentful that people are abandoning him for literally the worst alternative.― Josh in Chicago, Friday, December 16, 2016 8:54 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, December 16, 2016 8:54 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
imagine dealing with the cognitive dissonance between what trump ran and won on and the current state of the economy and obama's approval rating. I would want to get out and move the fuck on too.
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 16 December 2016 21:14 (seven years ago) link
Old Lunch otm
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 16 December 2016 21:16 (seven years ago) link