Children are not oppressed as a class. Lex is right. But many children face oppression and a lot of them have hard lives and it is gauche to act like they are little more than irritating pets people want to force on you.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:28 (seven years ago) link
Tbh i dont think i actually like being around children, especially. I was a teacher and got moved from high school to middle school and haaaatttted it. But like, i don't feel righteous in having limited patience and empathy ya know.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:29 (seven years ago) link
that's exactly how i feel. i feel like a curmudgeon or a dickhead if i get narky feelings towards children. they don't know any better than to behave as they do, they are essentially having fun, trying to learn about life, mostly p harmless. maybe that's overly self-flagellating but i don't think so.
it's the same to me as feeling waves of misanthropy but never defining myself as a misanthropist, trying to see positivity in people, trying to recognise when negativity might be coming from my own problems or my own negative experiences.
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:31 (seven years ago) link
misanthrope not misanthropist, god...
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:32 (seven years ago) link
Everybody here trying to outdo each other in trenchant commentary about how bad and rong Lex is about children is really ...something
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:34 (seven years ago) link
I periodically have to spend time with 2 of them now and I dread it, the looks of expectation from their parents and grandparents as inside inner peace is being obliterated
― saer, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:34 (seven years ago) link
― Treeship, Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:28 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yea i agree with this. i don't feel the antipathy toward lex that others do itt. lex is smart, i value his thoughts on a lot of things, he is prob one of my favorite posters in certain ILM threads, his support of women and POC artists throughout his writing career is awesome. i just tihnk his opinion itt is incredibly small-minded and dumb. there are 2 billion kids in the world ffs. 1 billion of them live in poverty, they are vulnerable group of humans and are abused and denied of their value all the time. i don't think it is an interesting or fun opinion to celebrate how much they annoy you esp when you are basically just tihnking about rich kids in strollers in london
― I've read Ta-nehisi Coates. (marcos), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, December 13, 2016 10:34 AM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ill cop to this sure
guys i don't think this angle of argument is a good look
You're probably right and I shouldn't have taken the bait.
I'll just leave it at "Expressing discomfort at being around people for their innate attributes is pretty shitty."
― and this section is called boner (Phil D.), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:37 (seven years ago) link
preemptive clusterfuck summary: fuckin' ilx
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Monday, December 12, 2016 8:04 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:39 (seven years ago) link
At least it's not about the election.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:42 (seven years ago) link
arguably this last election was between a child and a hawk!!!!11!!!
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:45 (seven years ago) link
And everyone's moms and dads are to blame
― Evan, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 15:53 (seven years ago) link
sad!
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:01 (seven years ago) link
children are a worse pizza topping than animals in general but a better pizza topping than dogs in particular
dogs in particular and animals in general are both more welcome in bars tho
― banfred bann (wins), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:25 (seven years ago) link
Dogs in pubs <333333
Such joy just thinking about them
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:29 (seven years ago) link
I like pub dogs because they are exactly the right duration of dog for me
― banfred bann (wins), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:31 (seven years ago) link
what about dogs in a pub that serves child-topped pizza
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:38 (seven years ago) link
An enormous dog stood up and put his paws on my shoulders and I had a meltdown, this in the house that has the two childrens in it, its like a house of horrors
― saer, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:39 (seven years ago) link
vs?
― banfred bann (wins), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:41 (seven years ago) link
children running a pizza pub for dogs
― Dave Plaintive rapper with classical training (imago), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:44 (seven years ago) link
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-uccqetzglt/product_images/uploaded_images/maggie-w-label.png
― Evan, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:45 (seven years ago) link
former xp
― banfred bann (wins), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:45 (seven years ago) link
https://images3.newscred.com/Zz1mZWYzODI0ODNlMGE2NTg1MDFiOWE3YmUxNGZhMDU3Mg==?height=480&width=800
― nomar, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:46 (seven years ago) link
the smile of a dog who knows who the good boy is <3
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 16:58 (seven years ago) link
surprised you don't consider it an insult to call a dog "boy"
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:02 (seven years ago) link
I find it exhausting to perform the emotional dance of keeping their attention and interacting w them for a few hours much less the next 25-30 years. Maybe it's less tiring when you know them well and you don't have to perform but for me it's all emoting and trying to read them 24/7.
This is illuminating, but also at odds with my experience.
You know that saying that dogs have owners and cats have staff? My children are on their best behavior for others (to them, a babysitter or teacher is an authority figure). They tend to treat me as staff.
― troops in djibouti (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:05 (seven years ago) link
lol yes that's even more terrifying
― If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:12 (seven years ago) link
A propos of upthread I know ppl with kids who you can still have a conversation with while the kids amuse themselves, and then I know ones where the child is used to interrupting by yelling and demanding immediate attention and the parent obliges every time, which isn't about the nature of children as much as boundaries and compromises parents make. It's still extremely tedious though.
My mother did a good bit of hand-wringing to me on the phone last night over her grief in not having more grandchildren. She says out of the 4 kids she birthed, you'd think she'd get more than one grandson out of it, and I especially should hurry up and give her grand-daughters to dote on. I'm like, sure, figure out how I'm going to ship them to you to be raised and you're going to explain to my dad that in your retirement years of leisure you decided to be a parent all over again.
― If authoritarianism is Romania's ironing board, then (in orbit), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:19 (seven years ago) link
the nadir i've witnessed of the latter was one friend talking about her mother's breast cancer to another friend (with toddler), and mid-sentence the latter just...switched her attention to her child with no warning or acknowledgement
most conversations are not as serious as that, fortunately, but the tendency to abruptly abandon conversations when children wander up is pretty common in parents
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:27 (seven years ago) link
please allow me to repeat myself: parents are now and have always been the real enemy.
Especially when they want become GRANDPARENTS. the horror.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:30 (seven years ago) link
the tendency to abruptly abandon conversations when children wander up is pretty common in parents
And without any "excuse me" etc. Parenting totally erodes people's manners and they act like oh well it's because I'm a dad now! Sorry, no, not acceptable. Chew your food first, then talk, and don't use your kid's vernacular when talking about yourself. It's not funny. You're the grown-up.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:33 (seven years ago) link
I genuinely believe that there is a certain subset of people who welcome the birth of their offspring with no small degree of joy that they can now engage in public improprieties reserved only for breeders. And they're horrible people and I feel like I can spot them from all the way across the biggest playground in my city.
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:36 (seven years ago) link
special circle in hell reserved for adults who say "I have to go potty" about themselves
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:37 (seven years ago) link
i think the issue of there existing kids that have shitty lives is somewhat separate to lex not being delighted by being around kids (probably in fairness likely to be kids that dont have shitty lives)
i speak as a former kid with a shitty life and not as a general fan of lex but this got a bit ridic tbh
― loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:37 (seven years ago) link
curious as to why lex was so inundated by under-sevens in the first place
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:39 (seven years ago) link
i think the issue of there existing kids that have shitty lives is somewhat separate to lex not being delighted by being around kids
oh sure it is i agree . lex is prob talking about rich kids in london but instead he frames it as "why would anyone have kids? you can't talk to them, they interrupt you, they are loud and annoying , fuck these monsters" etc
― I've read Ta-nehisi Coates. (marcos), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:41 (seven years ago) link
and tombot otm re parents not kids
― I've read Ta-nehisi Coates. (marcos), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:42 (seven years ago) link
i agree with those hypothetical questions tho
i love kids and i love to give them back and i love to judge parents as soon as an otherwise adorable bundle of potential person irritates me in the slightest
why would anyone choose to own on in 2016 tho i mean its a terrible idea.
― loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:44 (seven years ago) link
― mookieproof, Tuesday, December 13, 2016 5:39 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
got a few too many friends with them now (luckily plenty without, and without any intentions of having them, as well). the various social gatherings all only got good once all the parents and children left. the worst offenders were strangers though, may i never again end up in a christmas fair like the one populated by apparently 5 million screaming toddlers running straight into you from all directions and their awful parents
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:50 (seven years ago) link
they can smell sneer you know
― loudmouth darraghmac ween (darraghmac), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:52 (seven years ago) link
i totally understand people not enjoying the company of children and never wanting to spawn, but what kind of Christmas fair isn't going to be a child magnet? or at least a parents-dragging-their-unwilling-and-unhappy-kids-around magnet?
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
i've learned my lesson! i was expecting at least mulled wine and snacks and somewhere reasonably peaceful to sit. there were none of these things. i lasted 10 horrendous minutes
― lex pretend, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:55 (seven years ago) link
lex pictured at left:https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia-cache-ec0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F51%2Fdd%2F85%2F51dd85b5d75559cdd99bdf85925fb74a.jpg&f=1
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:56 (seven years ago) link
mulled wine makes parenting so much easier, and then so much harder
― Our Sweet Fredrest (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:57 (seven years ago) link
totally forgot Mordy wrote those Jacob Two Two books
― El Tomboto, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
i actually think i know one of his kids (or maybe it's his nephew)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 13 December 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
dunno really. a lot more abuse probably happened in the era of "kids should be soon and not heard".
getting irate about kids interrupting or barging in on conversations seems pretty childish in itself. yeah i prefer if i can talk to adults but equally kids need attention more than me and might not understand it if they don't get it.
― Bein' Sean Bean (LocalGarda), Tuesday, 13 December 2016 18:34 (seven years ago) link
*seen and not heard