Richard Dawkins - Anti -Christ or Great Thinker?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyrvYGtW8AAsi70.jpg

omg

loooool

when i debate with my religious family members, i'm not debating just them. i'm also debating God. so fuck me.

I assume by "literature" he means "souls."

wkiw tbh

jesus imagine wasting some of the precious gift of life sitting and reading The God Delusion

I'm sure dermatologists see such outbreaks of atheists all the time. Probably just allergies.

Recently heard Dawkins talking about one of his favorite recent science fiction stories about virtual reality but I never recognized or remembered the author's name.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/1791656952
Interesting sounding book about Iris Murdoch on Plato's dislike of art.

Was that his conversation with Sam Harris? He mentions Counterfeit World by Daniel F. Galouye.

Yes, I think that was it.

First Blair and now this twunt, perhaps for the best there's not going to be 2nd referendum, Leave would win it in a canter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39218108

We still have AC Grayling - "the brains of remain" to save us.

the dumb bastard probably doesn't realise how many people he's helped turn into "rational, logical, western civilization" xenophobic twats with his garbage interventions in the public discourse

Was that his conversation with Sam Harris? He mentions Counterfeit World by Daniel F. Galouye.

Published in 1964 and adapted for cinema by Fassbinder in 1973.

http://cinedelphia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/header.jpg

So not recent then. Though Dawkins might have only read it recently, in between tweets.

lol a friend asked me out of the blue what i thought of dawkins a couple of weeks ago and (forgetting this guy binges on youtubes of the atheist gang) i forgot to be my usual circumspect self, and said "i think he's a fool" -- luckily this was so startling to him i might as well have said "i think he's a 12th century malaysian pirate", so it didn't immediately lead to a row, just a slightly awkward discussion that petered out as we steered towards safer territory

(kinda wish now i'd said simpleton tho)

the dumb bastard probably doesn't realise how many people he's helped turn into "rational, logical, western civilization" xenophobic twats

or how many people he's encouraged to cheer on irrationality and illogic just to avoid being like him

Dawkins doesn't like Brexit, likewise Sam Harris doesn't like Trump according to one of his podcasts

oh bless Rod Liddle's worried about liberalism too

Dawkins doesn't like Brexit, likewise Sam Harris doesn't like Trump according to one of his podcasts

― Never changed username before (cardamon), Thursday, 9 March 2017 20:09

Hasn't this been clear the whole time?

Harris has a lot of fans who hate the left and he was practically begging them not to vote for Trump.

Fat lot of use, imo

Like honestly, the fucking responses of this pair are so weak. Not a grain of self awareness, no reflection on what sort of ideology they've pumped out over the years and where it was likely heading. I've got more self awareness, and I'm cardamon.

Could someone explain how Harris has influenced things for the worst? I didn't like what he said about not letting people wear face covering garments in certain places and probably a lot of other things but I just don't buy the idea he's so complicit in creating the new right wing.

well, if you google his name one of the first hits is a delightful article titled "In Defense of Torture"

most of his public speaking/article writing is of the type that comes from the premise that religion, particularly belief in a deity, is the root problem and not people using religion as a basis for their violent/misogynist/racist actions, all while writing and saying things that betray those attitudes. but since his beliefs don't root those attitudes in religious belief, he's a-ok

Not a few people are influenced by Ayn Rand's atheism, even if the overall tenor of discussions among the new Atheists is humanistic.

The excesses of modern Islamists are usually viewed within the community as a general problem of all theist religions, as they'll be happy to regale with tales of similar atrocities committed in the name of Christ, Yahweh, Baal Hammon, Huitzilopochtli, etc.

yeah but what about the nonreligious ills done in the name of imperialism, those are cool, right

The excesses of modern Islamists are usually viewed within the community as a general problem of all theist religions, as they'll be happy to regale with tales of similar atrocities committed in the name of Christ, Yahweh, Baal Hammon, Huitzilopochtli, etc.

Yeah they say this shit but come on

I still listen to Harris's podcast. He's boring on political correctness, but he's often good at articulating positions I don't agree with. And a lot of it is non-political - topics like free will or meditation.

All these dudes suck. They dress up "enlightened west vs irrational barbarian hordes" fantasies in rationalist garb but in the end they're just bigots.

I still listen to Harris's podcast. He's boring on political correctness, but he's often good at articulating positions I don't agree with. And a lot of it is non-political - topics like free will or meditation.

― jmm, Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:17 PM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he's not boring on political correctness he's actually an islamaphobic prick and bigot who of course has to be against political correctness because the hateful shite he spews isn't politically correct

Could someone explain how Harris has influenced things for the worst?

It's not really about the exact degree of influence he's had over this or that % of voters (which is probably relatively minor, although compare/contrast Harris stuff vs Breitbart).

It's more about what we are to make of someone that goes around the village all the time saying we all know who's to blame for all these cattle dying in their stalls, it's the witches, something must be done about these witches, these witches are entirely evil, even the good ones are secretly evil, no option should be off the table where witches are concerned, we need to actually adjust our idea of what's right and wrong when dealing with witches because they're so evil, doing all this with a totally straight face/intellectual podcast with mood muzak, and then acting surprised and concerned when the villagers start burning people for witchcraft

I've never heard him characterize a group as evil or secretly evil like that.

umm

are you trolling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfKLV6rmLxE

that took 3 seconds. why do you feel the need to go to bat for these guys?

google "sam harris islam"

first hit contains this line:

"The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world."

"pouring into our world"

i wonder what he's trying to make people think of when he uses this metaphor?

http://www.dw.com/image/18681320_401.jpg

NV and Jim otm

Although I don't think RAG is trolling. It probably is worth me admitting that Harris might not actually use the word 'evil' in any of this material, but it doesn't really matter

Feeling a need to go bat for Harris is understandable in that Harris cleverly presents himself as a thinking man who might think about/give a shit about your opinion if you were having an argument with him, which then makes us more inclined to engage with him/give him the time of day than we would be to some klan guy saying the same stuff, which they do.

* but it doesn't really matter whether he uses 'evil' or not when what does say (pulling his terminology from the diction of history and sociology and philosophy perhaps rather than good 'n' eeeevil) amounts to 'Islam is the worst thing in the world right now'

Not saying he definitely isn't a bigot (I don't follow him enough to know), like I said above, his ideas about the Muslim clothing issues seemed really bad to me and there's probably more where that came from. That quote Jim provided is really bad but it doesn't sound like him in his recent interviews/podcasts, especially when he has Muslim guests.

I'm just sceptical of some claims about him because he spends a lot of time clearing up times he's been (sometimes wilfully) misrepresented. This stuff spreads easily and I think he's changed stances on some of this stuff, so that 2010 video might not be as useful anymore. But I still think I'd disagree with him.

I trust that you guys are mostly better at this stuff than me so I'd rather ask sometimes than do the wading myself.

"The truth about Islam is as politically incorrect as it is terrifying: Islam is all fringe and no center. In Islam, we confront a civilization with an arrested history. It is as though a portal in time has opened, and the Christians of the 14th century are pouring into our world."

Do people who think this way know any Muslims at all?

This is the right wing version of larry appleton's ravings about white people in pick up trucks. Just fantastical, straining credulity.

In particular: I am British, went to school with/went to uni with/shared houses with/worked with/have neighbours who are Muslims, that sort of thing there, where people start talking about the 14th century or the gates of Vienna or whatever is just chilling

It's the erasure of real people (real in all the mixture of goodness and badness and reality) and replacing them with images, and the person doing it possibly doesn't even know they're doing it

Haven't you heard, Europe is already lost, the USA is the last hope for the white man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXPFfgdxp9o

cardamon making some excellent posts here

Even a stopped clock etc

harris' denial of free will is tremendously troubling for me, less New Atheism than New Calvinism