re: that Kendizor link "The days of Free Speech may soon end." I'm getting kinda sick of proclamations like this. We're basically building such a bogeyman that if Trump doesn't end up actually having journalists gunned down in the street he'll look moderate against expectations.
exactly, not trying to underestimate the awfulness here but we're going to slip into this same pattern where Trump gets praised for any little baby steps he takes towards being "presidential"
― frogbs, Friday, 18 November 2016 16:37 (seven years ago) link
^alas, that hysteria proved to be effective
yeah but I would prefer our side to be somewhat fact-based
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 16:40 (seven years ago) link
things are gonna be bad enough, no need to go full-blown makin-shit-up-to-be-scary
i completely agree shakey. just making a minor "btw" point.
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Friday, 18 November 2016 16:43 (seven years ago) link
Things will be bad, things will probably not be as bad as the worst predictions, and the worst predictions would ideally be framed in terms of 'this is how bad it COULD get and why, and here's what you can do to help forestall the malignity' rather than 'TRUMP WILL LITERALLY EAT YOUR CHILDREN IN FRONT OF YOU, BE VERY AFRAID' (which is not at all what I'm suggesting Kendzior's piece does).
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Friday, 18 November 2016 16:57 (seven years ago) link
The emphasis should be on skepticism, pragmatism, vigilance, and practical positive action.
― i need microsoft installed on my desktop, can you help (Old Lunch), Friday, 18 November 2016 16:59 (seven years ago) link
otm
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:03 (seven years ago) link
I really would like everyone saying "this is not normal" would go back and actually read through the history of the United States and what this country has done to practically every marginalized group it has ever encountered.
It's helpful to say that the path we are currently on is dangerous; saying it's not "normal" is to glibly ignore all of the horrendous things that have happened in this country's history and to falsely conflate "normal" with "good" and "desireable". The problem is much deeper and much more insidious than that. This is, after all, the same country that lynched members of my family less than 100 years ago; in the global scale of history, that was yesterday.
― ¶ (DJP), Friday, 18 November 2016 16:19 (forty minutes ago) Permalink
Yes. This is why I hated the "normal" language during the campaign. "Normal" is not the goal here. "Normal" is a false security blanket. Liberal cocooning with grubhub and prestige television. Trump didn't make Jeff Sessions out of clay, he is in the fucking US Senate.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:04 (seven years ago) link
he is made of clay tho
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:16 (seven years ago) link
the "normal" language may not be accurate re: history but I think a lot of the intent is motivational - these people having power should not be just another administration, don't become indifferent to the consequences (esp if you don't face any yourself), stay pissed off rather than depressed and hopeless.
― JoeStork, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:16 (seven years ago) link
isn't this also about the notion of "normalization"—of accepting false frameworks that do violence as inevitable or acceptable
obviously, lots of bullshit is already normalized—black lives matter was largely a push against the normalization of something terrifying & real & violent. I think the push against normalization is OK if it's done w/out acting as if its an exclusively new thing.
it's a bit of a fine needle to thread, to point out that trump is uniquely bad but also teh systems that have rewarded him are just one data point in a long line of structural violence
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:19 (seven years ago) link
You can achieve the same effect with "This is not right".
― ¶ (DJP), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:20 (seven years ago) link
on npr this morning they interviewed a woman who worked with gen flynn in afghanistan.. she said some nice things but also said he was as organized as pigpen from the peanuts. when asked what her reaction to his appointment was, "my heart sank"
awesome!
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:22 (seven years ago) link
I prefer that these ideologues be incompetent tbh. incompetence will wreak its own damage/havoc, but I'm inclined to say the situation would be worse if Trump had a team of people who really knew how to get shit done and had terrible ideas, rather than a team that doesn't know how to do a goddamn thing and has terrible ideas.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:30 (seven years ago) link
at the risk of bringing up the Nazi comparisons again, one of the things that made them so awful was that they were so competent and bureaucratic
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:31 (seven years ago) link
srs question: was J Edgar Hoover competent?
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:32 (seven years ago) link
with these clowns the worst crimes are going to be lack of oversight i.e., what they enable more competent ideologues (like Ryan, local law enforcement, intelligence operatives, etc.) to execute
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:33 (seven years ago) link
dude Hoover was a master
at keeping his job for almost 50 years, at least. xxp
it's possible this 'team' will have a hard time eclipsing the batshit thuggery of the Reaganauts, but records were made to be broken
also, the stakes are higher now
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:33 (seven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/opinion/sunday/the-end-of-identity-liberalism.htmlthis is maybe the worst piece I've read since the election
― Kiarostami bag (milo z), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:38 (seven years ago) link
he published that the day trump announced his third racist cabinet member...
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:39 (seven years ago) link
"Liberal cocooning with grubhub and prestige television"
this is most of the country forever though. not just now and not just liberals. as a people just really good at not thinking about what the government does and what people in power do. or they just figure they can't do anything about it. i dunno. iraq is a distant memory to a lot of people here. they couldn't tell you what has happened there in the last however many years. how many people could?
― scott seward, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:41 (seven years ago) link
― ¶ (DJP), Friday, November 18, 2016 11:20 AM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah i agree obv, i didn't mean to defend the specific phrase "this is not normal" so much as reflect on the notion of "normalization"—where we are worn down to accept what's wrong as the status quo, & the debilitating, traumatizing effects of that. I think there's value in talking about that effect, and fighting it by continually reminding yourself "this is not right."
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:42 (seven years ago) link
it's never been right. but yeah i guess this is the new improved even worse now.
― scott seward, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:44 (seven years ago) link
liberal cocooning with grubhub and prestige television is the modern day equivalent of middle class folk cocooning with their color tv and tract housing in the burbs
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:46 (seven years ago) link
shit coming home, they think, to people who have been insulated from most forms of oppression heretofore
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/14/chuck-schumer-the-worst-possible-democratic-leader-at-the-worst-possible-time/
So we have to count on this guy to lead the opposition?
― curmudgeon, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:51 (seven years ago) link
it's a country based on dominance. built and based on it. and that's the bargain everyone who lives here makes in order to have all the crap that we have. not to question too much how we get it. we all do it.
― scott seward, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:51 (seven years ago) link
sorry, need more coffee didn't mean to go all chomsky! gonna go listen to blue cheer.
no, Schumer v likely to be useless. end run around him
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 November 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
^^^
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:54 (seven years ago) link
indeed. someone (Eichenwald?) had a good piece about how Trump is kind of blowing his political capital early on for no reason. at the very least it's gonna be fun to watch this all unfold.
― frogbs, Friday, 18 November 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
I do not think this will be fun
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 18:01 (seven years ago) link
from the intercept article - this shit is definitely going to happen imo
Schumer has long been the Democrats’ point man in efforts to craft a bipartisan deal to slash taxes on multinational corporations.
― carthago delenda est (mayor jingleberries), Friday, 18 November 2016 18:03 (seven years ago) link
yes, he reiterated his intention on this a couple weeks before Clinton's inevitable victory
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Friday, 18 November 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
yeah I don't foresee any concerted resistance to a tax cut that vastly benefits the wealthy, unless Warren or Sanders mount a lonely filibuster or something
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 18:12 (seven years ago) link
I like the fighting spirit of this article:
http://inthesetimes.com/article/19638/fighting-trump-isnt-enoughwe-must-also-wage-war-within-the-democratic-party
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Friday, 18 November 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
so what do we know about pompeo?
― 龜, Friday, 18 November 2016 18:16 (seven years ago) link
Benghazi dude, Koch puppet, this Zerohedge piece is actually decent:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-18/meet-mike-pompeo-new-director-cia
― sleeve, Friday, 18 November 2016 18:18 (seven years ago) link
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/intensified-by-climate-change-king-tides-change-ways-of-life-in-florida.html
would mar a lagos be prone to flooding? maybe nothing will convince trump of global warming except trying to get coverage under his insurance policies
― 龜, Friday, 18 November 2016 18:20 (seven years ago) link
nah he'd claim the flooding was due to water displaced by all those refugees cramming into boats
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Friday, 18 November 2016 18:22 (seven years ago) link
after visiting gitmo pompeo said of the hunger strikers that a lot of them looked like they had put on weight
― never have i been a blue calm sea (collardio gelatinous), Friday, 18 November 2016 18:23 (seven years ago) link
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/donald-trump-election-hillary-clinton-election-night-inequality-republicans-trumpism/
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Friday, 18 November 2016 18:44 (seven years ago) link
yeah, I imagine the Trump scandals will be like Reagan's, where underlings' actions spring from the climate set by the President's rhetoric, even when he gives no specific orders.
― duped and used by my worst Miss U (President Keyes), Friday, 18 November 2016 19:00 (seven years ago) link
Steve Bannon is not a nice guy: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/11/stephen-bannon-facebook-group-racist-material-obama-death-threats
― Frederik B, Friday, 18 November 2016 19:01 (seven years ago) link
https://twitter.com/surlyurbanist/status/799414446959435776 (via jamelle bouie)
this seems like the sort of nuanced take on the intersection of race and class
I read the stratification economics piece. The fact that Trump wants to eliminate the estate tax is now something else that can be added to the list of racist things.
― sarahell, Friday, 18 November 2016 19:23 (seven years ago) link
iatee made a post years back about the estate tax that has stuck with me. paraphrasing: "basically the most defensible tax ever. money doesn't come out of the economy and you didn't do anything to deserve it other than being born. should be 100%."
― k3vin k., Friday, 18 November 2016 19:34 (seven years ago) link
anybody here in/near Louisiana?
http://theslot.jezebel.com/a-runoff-election-in-louisiana-could-help-democrats-in-1788959475
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 19:37 (seven years ago) link
Yes, in contact with Campbell's cousin via reddit. Expect to phone bank in N.O.
― Distribution of all possible outcomes (Sanpaku), Friday, 18 November 2016 19:40 (seven years ago) link
*high five*
― Οὖτις, Friday, 18 November 2016 19:41 (seven years ago) link