Americanisms that will never, ever cross over into the UK

accentmonkey, what do you mean?

I guess I mean shirts, yes? Nabisco referred to them on his trends thread. I've seen the word written down, and I always assumed it referred to an item of clothing (check out the big brain on me) but I never knew what it was.

The only irregularity I've ever caught on that one is that women usually call them "button-up" and men usually call them "button-down." I am not sure how much this correlates to actual buttoning-order trends (and, if so, what the chicken/egg status of that correlation might be).

Jaymc, I meant you are right that it specifically refers to a button-down collar.

if i ever hear a britisher say 'beer me', well, there'll be trouble.
jaymc is right about being right or something. 'button down' is kind of a generalism in addition to its proper meaning.

I've always called them button-down shirts if they button all of the way down. half-button or polo or whathaveyou otherwise. button-up sounds so... childish to me?

My boyfriend's repsonse to the hat name question:

"yeah... it's called gay"

:(

UNHELPFUL BOYFRIEND!

Re shirts: I do maintain that a button-down has a collar that...wait for it...buttons down. Otherwise I believe a men's shirt w/o a particular collar treatment is technically known as a sport shirt.

sport shirt doesn't equal like a polo shirt? Easy way around the whole button affair: dress shirt.

i'll concede that i don't know what the fuck i'm talking about, only how it's used. if i heard 'sport shirt' i'd think it was what jcpenney might call a polo.

yah see xpost

I have never heard "button-up" used by anyone over the age of...let's say, nine.

No, Miz, a "dress shirt" goes under a suit, is tailored in a more fitted fashion so as not to bunch up under a suit, and has a particular style of collar intended for some number of tie-tying options. Ie the spread collar, the button-tab, the straight-point, etc.

oh yea,h dress shirt, i use that too. i've never heard sport shirt, is that the one made of a thicker cotton, with 2-3 buttons, and a collar, often worn by frat boys?

I'm going to start a band called "Unhelpful Boyfriend"

xxpost

This is what I would imagine a "button-down" to be as well (ignoring the more accurate collar definition.)

We have now morphed from geo-political discussion to general fashion talk.

button-down shirt is used, if not accurately, at least colloquially to any manner of shirts with buttons, some of which are dress shirts

what he said
after i said

I think part of the meaning slippage might be that there's not much significant difference now between a button collar and a non-button collar?

xpost You guys seem to be saying that there is no word that applies to a medium-weight buttoned-front collar-having shirt without collar buttons, of the sort that people wear every day -- the weird thing is some googling agrees, agreeing that the thing in question is just ... a "shirt."

Depends on who you ask, apparently. Technically I think a sport-shirt is any shirt that is made of a woven, ie a non-stretchy fabric that is NOT a knit, has buttons up the front and on the cuffs, but the collar does not button down and is not particularly shaped to be worn with a tie. Also, the body and sleeves are usu cut fuller than a dress-shirt for ease of movement, and the tails are somewhat shorter than on a dress-shirt because it's understood that you are likely to wear the shirt untucked.

Laurel drops tailor science.

a 'sport shirt' is a polo shirt

But what about sport peppers? eh?

I, umm, concur that it feels weird to refer to those items as "sport shirts," given what happens when you substitute the name of an actual sport:

tennis shirt = polo
rugby shirt = polo
polo shirt = polo

No, gab, because a sport-shirt is meant to be worn with a sport-COAT; however you may feel about either item in a general sense, there's a reason their names are so...some might even say,"similar".

Also per the Brooks Brothers website a sport-shirt can actually have a button down collar, so apparently the def is at least somewhat flexible..but they are tending to RAISE the ante on formality, not LOWER it.

how about those guys that tuck in their "sport shirts" wear blackberrys in belt clips, use bluetooth and have flashy gold watches and running shoes?

They should only stay far away from me and enjoy living in Middle America/the 'burbs?

I mean don't get me wrong, my dad is clearly and unabashedly one of them. Well, minus the bluetooth and the watch and the running shoes. But he is a devoted wearer of pleated slacks and sport shirts and sensible brown leather brogues. It's a type.

you've never seen someone wear a polo shirt and a "sport-coat"? the reason the brooks website has sports shirts with button down collars is because sports shirts have nothing to do with tailoring but refer to presentable non-office-wear, i.e. polo shirts or button-down shirts in colors and patterns that are less muted than professional-wear

I was just going to say, actually, that the rise of "corporate casual" as an acceptable every-day style has actually contributed a LOT to the variety of sport shirts available, because suddenly relatively few people wear suits on a regular basis. And I don't deal w/ menswear very much colloquially but I have mentally filed away my info from multiple books about sewing/tailoring and wardrobe guides, so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me?

We need M White on this thread, I think.

pleated slacks and sport shirts and sensible brown leather brogues. It's a type.
as a tall/not big man i am tyrannized by appeals to this 'type'. i do not want to look like fucking Sinbad on his day off thx.

I really need to get some t-shirts done with this logo, purely to hand out to Momus and a bunch of lesbians:

http://apacheplaza.com/apachefannyfarmer.jpg

The button-down shirt has small buttons on the corners and is also known as an Oxford shirt. Sez me and The Preppy Handbook.

Nabisco, it's a shirt, the default setting of shirt. Please to avoid using the term 'sports shirt' wherever you live. I call the stretchy Lacoste/Lauren ones 'polo shirts'

Polo neck means turtleneck in England, though turtleneck is also in use.

Have used 'wanker' and 'twat' since at least 1984, thanks to specialist profanities used by friend's incorrigible English dad, who was happy to popularise them in that corner of Minnesota.

tremendoid: what continent are you on? because apparently you can get some VERY nice clothes in scandinavia if you're tall and lean... a friend is going and hopefully bringing me back from 36 or 38 leg swedish jeans!

wau I'm in the U.S. I've looked at some uk sites but never thought to look in the tallest part of the western world hmmm. it would mostly be for biz casual pants (plain front, wool pref), I can find jeans and sport shirts and the like ok. do they have a link?

www.acnejeans.com

i mean, that's one company, all of sweden's fashion industry doesn't have a webpage together or anything

ACNE JEANS

plz clarify exclamation

let me show you them xp

haha I remember the mass confusion that ensued when I asked someone to hand me my toque after the first Christmas party I attended in upstate NY.

The "university"/"college" thing is interesting. They're two very separate things in Canada (where "college" = "community college" by and large) but a college can be the local campus of a state university in India so I'd assumed it was like that in the UK as well.

I've never heard anyone say "bunny hug" ever. (In the same way I've never heard a non-ironic "hoser." SCTV just made that up, right?) I'm pretty sure I've only heard "buddy" to mean "guy" from a small-town Newfie (who also used "missus" for "girl".)

(And, with respect, what were you on about with all that "Li'l Canada" stuff, Will??)

I've definitely heard "beer" used as a singular plural but it's certainly not universal.

That sounds like it's less about a singular/plural issue and more just omitting "cans of" or "bottles of."

Also it sounds like "deer."

The "university"/"college" thing is interesting. They're two very separate things in Canada (where "college" = "community college" by and large) but a college can be the local campus of a state university in India so I'd assumed it was like that in the UK as well.

it's not unproblematic here -- i went to 'sixth form college', and there are also further education colleges and whatnot, but my current "university" is called b1rkb3ck college and the ancient universities are really federations of independent colleges...

Ooh Suzy I forgot about the "Oxford" designation! Good catch. But technically AGAIN and sorry to bore the fuck out of everyone, but Oxford refers to a weave of cotton where threads in one direction are a yarn-dyed color and threads in the other direction are white, producing a lighter version of the dyed color with a slightly variegated appearance. So the totally traditional preppy standards in pink and blue and yellow are Oxford cloth, but the "novelty" ones sold by Lands' End in blue-and-white windowpane, for example, while everyone would understand you if you called them an Oxford shirt, are really getting a pass in colloquial use.

*Denim is also traditionally made this way but the weave picks up two warp threads at a time, instead of warp & weft being 1-to-1 ratio.

I mean obv it's not boring to me, but I am being Chief Pedant here and I'm at least slightly sorry about it.

Hella,hella,HELLA!

I'm American, worked in England for three months, and told a co-worker I had gone to public school. I think he took it the wrong way.

Hey, out of curiosity, does anyone in the UK still use terms like "lorry" and "tiffin" and "nought" (to mean the number zero) or have those become exclusively Indian?

If we extend this beyond linguistics, I expect/hope that the insane month/day/year date format and 'American'/Imperial measurement system will never spread/spread back?

Hey, out of curiosity, does anyone in the UK still use terms like "lorry" and "tiffin" and "nought" (to mean the number zero) or have those become exclusively Indian?

my fam still does (at least 'lorry' and 'nought,' never heard 'tiffin' before)