Todd Haynes

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& wasnt todd haynes new movie similar in its conceits

― anthony, Friday, 25 March 2005 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

todd soldnz

― anthony, Friday, 25 March 2005 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

it doesn't make you perverse, it just means you liked the movie!

i think the conceit is sort of similar, but haynes's film was much more imaginative in its reworking of the source materials and much more rigorous in its evocation/replication of the style of said materials.

i don't know, i think van sant is gifted but not very smart, honestly. haynes could not be accused of not being smart, i suspect.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:02 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe that's snotty (about van sant), i don't know. and to be honest i haven't seen all his films. maybe the early ones have more spark. but "elephant" and "gerry" struck me as films that didn't have a thought in their heads, despite having a stylistic flair.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

the french loved "elephant," probably because it showcased americans shooting each other and had a patina of artistic seriousness.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i'm a fan of van sant's psycho and have said so a fair bit around here. i've probably mentioned this before too, but it seems like some of the most interesting things (to me) about van sant's stuff often don't seem to have occured to him – i don't think this diminishes it tho. at any rate i don't really think he and haynes are mining very similar territory.

― jones (actual), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:52 (twenty-one years ago)

Elephant was terribly stupid.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 25 March 2005 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

(i thought its shallowness made it a lot more genuinely troubling as a film than it could have been otherwise – to me that's not the same as being stupid, but i know what you mean)

― jones (actual), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i thought it was an irresponsible film that hid behind its "daring". i don't think van sant ever owned up to the real motivations behind the film, which i think were largely opportunistic. i'm not even sure he's smart (or whatever) enough to recognize the nature of his own motivations and ambitions. although obviously he's articulate in a certain sense (not a profound one).

i guess the most interesting part about "elephant" was the degree of human sympathy it elicited for characters not often seen in films (NOT the killers, but some of the students introduced in the first half ), but that was ultimately sort of incidental to the film and its main reason for being. i've written about this on an "elephant"-specific thread.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I still like elephant a whole lot.

― cozen (Cozen), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:44 (twenty-one years ago)

that elephant thread is more interesting than the film

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 25 March 2005 18:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I've read Haynes' Dylan script (which he co-wrote with Oren Moverman) and it's fucking genius. It's like finding yourself suddenly in the cover in the Basement Tapes and then having that world explode outward a thousand times. I can't believe the studio is backing it, even though it is an authorized Dylan project. It's incredibly strange. Dylan fans will love it, others will probably scratch their heads.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, i think the studios may regret giving haynes a bunch of movie to make a movie.

what's funny is that haynes seems such an unlikely person to be obsessed with bob dylan. in the sense that dylan's legacy has been "owned," or rather leased, of late by the sort of rock critics who emphasize his folk roots and so on. to the point where there isn't a pervasive sense of dylan as a pop persona, as a modernist figure. so i'm very interested to see where haynes goes with this. (i mean, it's hard to imagine haynes making a movie that concerns itself with, uh, different versions of "st james infirmary," simply because that's a strain of american culture the celebration of which takes on a certain role that seems anathema to haynes's own self-fashioned role in the culture. if that makes sense.)

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

also the title of this film is rancid. but so was "velvet goldmine."

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

whats the title? must have missed that bit.

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm Not There: Suppositions on a Film Concerning Dylan

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

that title screams "I HAVE AN MFA FROM BROWN!"

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:34 (twenty-one years ago)

or Francis Bacon!

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

It's called "I'm Not There," which is a Dylan tune from the Basement Tapes era (on the bootleg but not the official release). There's a lenghtly subtitle which is something like "suppositions on a film about Bob Dylan" but the script I have has "inspired by the life and work of Bob Dylan" as the subtitle (it's a Sept. '04 draft).

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:35 (twenty-one years ago)

obvs. i didnt realise what either an MFA or BROWN was, my bad!

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:37 (twenty-one years ago)

i think the title is cute

― jones (actual), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

amt i think that's a reductive readin of all the wird-old-america folk culture that went into that (and one that dylan has ALWAYS somewhat been fightin)

eg the gap between dylan (in toto) and glam (in toto) is smaller than dave van ronk wants it to be

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

velvet goldmine is the name of a hyper-queer bowie b-side (as you all probably know)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

speaking of Dave Van Ronk:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0306814072/qid=1111779776/sr=8-2/ref=pd_csp_2/102-1769521-6410552?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[i]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0306814072.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/i]

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

FUCK I simply cannot do html.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:44 (twenty-one years ago)

all u need is an i before the addy, shookout, tho i think there are probs linking to amazon images at the mo.

― jed_ (jed), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:46 (twenty-one years ago)

er, anyway I cannot wait to read this book.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:47 (twenty-one years ago)

eg the gap between dylan (in toto) and glam (in toto) is smaller than dave van ronk wants it to be

i agree, i was trying to say (i think i failed) that the reigining dylan paradigm doesn't really involve much glam and doesn't really evoke anything that haynes has previously been known to be interested in. that doesn't mean that dylan himself, or his music or pop persona, doesn't have affinities with what haynes has previously been known to be interested in.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

i guess my "ruling paradigm" is kogan/marcus in ref.this topic (ie between them they made me not bored abt zimmie)

― mark s (mark s), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:51 (twenty-one years ago)

that elephant thread is more interesting than the film

I can't think of a single thread/discussion/reaction that I've ever found more interesting than the film it's discussing.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

And I've tried.

― Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 25 March 2005 20:01 (twenty-one years ago)

He really likes Dylan's music, if that's what you're wondering, Am.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Friday, 25 March 2005 21:00 (twenty-one years ago)

if someone feels like emailing me the shooting script, i wouldnt be adverse to reading it.

― anthony, Friday, 25 March 2005 21:27 (twenty-one years ago)

ooh me too please

― jones (actual), Friday, 25 March 2005 21:28 (twenty-one years ago)

mark has frank k written about dylan outside ilx (and if so where please)?

― jones (actual), Friday, 25 March 2005 21:39 (twenty-one years ago)

eg the gap between dylan (in toto) and glam (in toto) is smaller than dave van ronk wants it to be

Dylan never should've left Toto, he was the best one!

― The Yellow Kid, Saturday, 26 March 2005 09:00 (twenty-one years ago)

haha

anyway i think i was being really unclear upthread... due to my trying to condense a difficult thought that i hadn't even quite reasoned out into a few words (because i was at work and rushed). i'll try to explain myself again a little later, when i have time.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Saturday, 26 March 2005 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

two years pass...

James Lyons, 46, Film Editor and Actor, Dies

By EDWARD WYATT

James Lyons, a film editor whose most notable collaborations were with the director Todd Haynes on several feature films, including “Safe,” “Velvet Goldmine” and “Far From Heaven,” died Thursday in Manhattan. He was 46 and lived in Brooklyn Heights.

The cause was squamous cell cancer, which followed more than a decade of treatment for H.I.V., his brother Patrick said.

Mr. Lyons, often billed as Jim, gained notice for both his acting in and editing of “Poison,” Mr. Haynes’s 1991 triptych, which won the grand jury prize at the 1991 Sundance Film Festival.

Mr. Lyons acted in several other films, including “Postcards From America” (1994), in which he played the artist David Wojnarowicz, an advocate for AIDS awareness. But it was as an editor that he primarily identified himself; among his other editing projects was Sofia Coppola’s 1999 film, “The Virgin Suicides.”

A member of Act Up, the AIDS awareness organization, in the 1990s, Mr. Lyons said he saw film as a medium to spread awareness of the disease. At his death, he was preparing to direct a short film about Andy Warhol.

Mr. Lyons is survived by his partner, Terrence Savage of Brooklyn Heights; his mother, Gladys M. Lyons of Port Jefferson Station on Long Island; four brothers, Patrick, of Port Washington, N.Y., an editor in the continuous news department at The New York Times, Timothy, of Port Jefferson Station, Thomas, of East Longmeadow, Mass., and John, of Pleasanton, Calif.; and a sister, Claire M. Roff of Massapequa Park, N.Y.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

― Dr Morbius, Monday, 16 April 2007 14:21 (nineteen years ago)

R.I.P.

― Ben Boyerrr, Monday, 16 April 2007 14:37 (nineteen years ago)

Jim Lyons remembrances

― Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 18 April 2007 13:45 (nineteen years ago)

Cate Blanchette Doesn't Look Back

http://goldenfiddle.com/sites/goldenfiddle.com/files/images/cateblanchett_0.jpg

― Mr. Que, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:15 (nineteen years ago)

ho, great

― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:16 (nineteen years ago)

just watched Safe again the other night. can't believe they made that film for only $1m.

RIP

― Edward III, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:35 (nineteen years ago)

six months pass...