ILE Weight Watchaz

i just have a silly limit set for june whereby i aim to be slim enough to wear a particular shirt. and once im at the lower end of the healthy bmi range i'll stop being quite as strict on the NO TAKEAWAY, NO OIL, etc rules.

will the plateau just disappear naturally and weightloss continue, or do i need to ramp up the exercise or lessen calories to kick it aside? how long do they generally last?

i think im the typical chubster in that i was nice and slim just 3 years ago, but then moved in with a partner and food became a big focus, eating rich fatty food - suddenly realised that i wasn't looking how i used to and made a firm decision to reverse it. (i see it as a kindof parallel with the world economy haha - boom years guzzling chinese and sugarry drinks, now the bubble has burst and its time for cutbacks)

i do hope my exericse + calorie-cutting will work in the longterm (over a 6 month period) but im worried im doing things wrong, like eating too much salt or not eating enough overall and my body is entering starvation mode. i think i will be ok though. i have found it difficult to find good detailed articles about all this, though the ny times has some very interesting pieces.

the one thing i am most pleased with is that by learning about the calorie content of most foodstuffs (oil and butter and soft drinks are just insane!) means that i will be much more careful about this for the rest of my life, which in the very very longterm can only be good. also good as im quite the control freak and i feel im taking back control of my life and the food that goes into it. comes as a great relief after those awful pangs of blinkered guilt after gorging myself on curries, etc.

i am quite lucky in that my partner enjoys cooking and is also keen to lose weight and eat healthier. if i lived on my own again i doubt i could do quite so well. this new diet has given me more energy and i feel more chipper and less slobby in my day-to-day life too. im at danger of prattling on about the benefits to my friends too much though!

at the moment i would most like some advice on what kind of weight lifting is best for my situation, could you recommend some good websites/articles which go into this?

i just have a silly limit set for june whereby i aim to be slim enough to wear a particular shirt.

Not silly. This is precisely the kind of goal you need to keep you motivated.

will the plateau just disappear naturally and weightloss continue, or do i need to ramp up the exercise or lessen calories to kick it aside? how long do they generally last?

Plateaus can potentially last weeks. It's the way the body reconfigures. One week you can be eating perfectly and plateau; another week you can be eating cakes and lose weight. It's your overall diet and long-term loss that count.

i do hope my exericse + calorie-cutting will work in the longterm (over a 6 month period) but im worried im doing things wrong, like eating too much salt or not eating enough overall and my body is entering starvation mode.

If you're eating enough, you'll be fine. The trick is to get enough of all the major food groups and not overindulge (or underindulge) in any areas.

A lot of people think starvation = weight loss. It's bullshit. Carbs in measure are essential, for example.

What do you do with salt that has you worried?

the one thing i am most pleased with is that by learning about the calorie content of most foodstuffs (oil and butter and soft drinks are just insane!) means that i will be much more careful about this for the rest of my life, which in the very very longterm can only be good.

Definitely. Kids should be taught this stuff in school.

this new diet has given me more energy and i feel more chipper and less slobby in my day-to-day life too.

As long as you don't think about it as 'a diet,' you could be doing it forever.

Many people think of a diet as something temporary to do in order to lose weight. RONG.

at the moment i would most like some advice on what kind of weight lifting is best for my situation, could you recommend some good websites/articles which go into this?

I really can't help you with this (my trainer does all this for me!) but bodybuilding.com is a decent resource that covers just about every aspect of weight training you can think of.

Someone start an ILE Biggest Loser thread?

We've already got the statscock.

Oh s.rose, before I forget: Eating less will not necessarily cause you to lose weight faster. If what you're doing now is working, stick to it.

If you feel the need to reduce what you eat, do it gradually. Slice around 5% off your daily intake -- no more -- and stay with that for 2-3 months.

We tend to think our bodies are like a giant balloon, and if we put in more stuff it'll get bigger. It's more about cultivating an efficient metabolism.

One of the things I like about Weight Watchers the program is that's a well-thought-out systematic approach to losing weight and changing what one eats. With the weekly meetings, there's even more of an external reinforcing structure that I need, since i'm bad at changing long-term habits.

Also, i rode my bike to the supermarket about 20-25 minutes away, up & down the hills of NE Portland. That was overdoing it just a little, as i had a backpack full of groceries on the way home. Still, this should take care of at some of the beer I drank today.

What happens if, during a healthy period, we have a massive (one-meal) blowout that involves having seconds of three different kinds of pies until we're so full we're in pain :(

What happens? You feel guilty for a while, nothing serious happens and you don't do it again.

Also, calling it a 'healthy period' implies you'll stop eating healthily.

I need to figure out how to eat less or something.

What do you do with salt that has you worried?

oh nothing particular with salt, i just plucked that out as a random example. im slowly getting a grip on the different elements of nutrition, but am i right in thinking i only REALLY need to think about calories intake? (providing im eating plenty of fruit, veg, etc and not just 1200 cals worth of sweets). the only thing i am slightly concerned about is sugar, as i do drink a lot of cordial and tea (albeit low sugar fruit juice and half cal sugar + honey in tea).

Kids should be taught this stuff in school.

absolutely. it should be made compulsory for all high street food chains to make their calorie/fat information available, if not on the menu then at least on the website. in a perfect world this should apply to all places, even small independent cafes & restaurants (if i can work out the calories for a meal i make on my own then it certainly isn't beyond a moneymaking business to do this as well).

As long as you don't think about it as 'a diet,' you could be doing it forever. Many people think of a diet as something temporary to do in order to lose weight. RONG.

damn right, when i made the decision to sort this out (in great part to the stream of post-xmas pro-healthy eating docs hosted by jamie oliver & co) i was certain not to refer to it as a 'diet' in a temporary sense. i am doing it to an extreme for the next 6 months in order to get to my ideal weight, and after that will allow more treats and meal outs, but the basic way im eating is completely changed forever.

another question about exercise, is it better to use exercise bikes or the treadmill, or they both equal? i much prefer the bikes, to be able to read and listen to music at leisure but i don't want to compromise the work im doing.

Now that I have to share a kitchen with roommates I usually don't cook anymore, thus I don't eat as much. After my separation in October I've lost probably 30-40 lbs by not eating so much and smoking 2 packs a day. Was at like 315, own to like 265 or 270 now. Also, whiskey instead of beer every night.

i seriously considered the cigarette diet as well.

s.rose: Alternate between the two, on say a monthly cycle (hur cycle geddit).

Oh my GOD smoking would be the worst health decision you could possibly make! Don't ever start!

hehe i wasnt 100% about smoking, but it did cross my mind - when i was a 10 per day smoker i was a rake!

AA, is the switch to treadmill necessary? i truly hate running and much much prefer cycling - but am i missing out on exercising certain parts of my body if i stick solely to cycling?

and perhaps related, the main problem with my body are my love handles and flabby belly, if i continue with the aerobic + anaerobic exercise + low cal eating will these problems disappear in enough time? are there any particular exercises i can do to focus on these pesky bits?

Most important fact first: You can't spot reduce. Fat goes where it wants to go.

If you don't like the treadmill, don't use it. At all. You'll only keep it up if you like doing it.

You seem to do plenty on the bike, so your legs will be getting a decent pounding. Have you looked at the rowing machine?

Oh and yes, they will disappear if you're doing everything properly.

that's good to hear about the belly flab! i had visions of a tight lean frame with a rubber ring of flab round the middle

is it really important to switch machines after a time? i might try out the cross trainer but i can't see myself sticking at it so long or enjoying it as much as the bikes. but if im getting the same results on a bike as on a different cardio machine then is it really vital to switch?

that bodybuilding site is great btw, thanks very much for that link

I only started to like running when I weighed little enough that it wasn't extremely uncomfortable - like maybe when I was only about 10 pounds overweight instead of 20 or 30.

is it really important to switch machines after a time?

Yeah. Your body gets used to a certain way of working and begins to adapt to it. It's change that has the most impact.

My weights routine changes every four weeks for this reason. You need to shake things up in order to maintain progress.

ahh damn, i didn't know this. looks like i'll have to try out the cross trainer every so often. would something like 3 wks of cycling, 1 wk of crosstrainer be enough of a change? as hurting says, it should get easier as i get lighter.

in what way do you change your weights routine, AA? i have a basic routine of 3 sets of 20 reps on about 5 or 6 machines, not too sure how i could vary them.

Try it, see if it works.

My current routine is a five-day split, meaning I go in five days a week and do a ~50 minute routine. It's all low reps/heavy weights, so I can manage four reps but no more than six. Next week I'm on two weeks of hypertrophy, doing lighter weights but ~12 reps at a time. Then it's back to low reps/heavy weights for a few weeks, but different exercises to what I'm doing now.

Also, I don't use machines unless it's absolutely necessary because generally they're sort of useless.

You should see a trainer and get a programme. Does your gym do programmes?

<i>I don't use machines unless it's absolutely necessary because generally they're sort of useless.</i>

woah, how come?

You don't get the right kind of training, stability for example. Bench pressing a barbell is 293847293749234 times more effective than using some machine that does the same thing, because you're having to hold, balance and stabilise the entire bar, rather than have a machine do all that for you.

You can't avoid machines for some exercises, like calf raises and cable rows/pulls, because there's really no other way to do those.

By contrast my trainer wants me eating five meals a day ffs. I've just spent $80 on some magical bulking powder. This had better work.

blew out any semblence of tracking my eating on tuesday night with a burrito and a 6er of Rainier's tallboys. Got good & drunk whilst watching primary election returns.

Woke up today with a mild hangover and a chest cold, making my morning all the more blah. No exercise or brisk walks for me for the last coupla days.

In other news, i found out that six pints of beer is only like 20-21 weight watchers points. Funny how that works out.

Attempting to loose the 8-ish lbs I put on during the stress fest that was the end of 2007 and then over Christmas. I've always eaten in a reasonably healthy fashion (nice fatty things in small amounts, excepting cheese and wine - I will not strip all wicked joy from my life, however much I actually enjoy raspberries, grilled fish etc.) So I've started going swiming three times a week again. I was doing this about a year and a half ago and it worked very nicely. I had a flatter stomach, noticably more toned upper arms and thighs and the bit of cellulite I did have went (I am aware I'm quite genetically lucky WRT cellulite, and I thank my grandmother's genes on a regular basis.)
So, swimming it is. Four pounds gone. Whoo hoo! Just the difficult four to go now. (I always struggle with those four-five, that's the cheese weight.)

AA, is the switch to treadmill necessary? i truly hate running and much much prefer cycling - but am i missing out on exercising certain parts of my body if i stick solely to cycling?

and perhaps related, the main problem with my body are my love handles and flabby belly, if i continue with the aerobic + anaerobic exercise + low cal eating will these problems disappear in enough time? are there any particular exercises i can do to focus on these pesky bits?

pretty sure that aerobic exercise is aerobic exercise is aerobic exercise - the point of it isn't to work certain parts of your body, the point of it is to get your heart beating faster and your lungs working harder for an extended period of time - so whatever you choose that does this is fine

kingfish, what is the logic behind lager having low points? i dont quite understand the WW system, is it not based on calories?

AA, that's annoying (for me) about the machines. im not planning to use the weights in my gym as that area is always populated by a real nasty bunch of alpha cocks, complete with roidstare. when i move to a new flat the aim is to have a spare bedroom to put an exercise bike, weights and bench in there, but that'll be at least 6 months off. i'll stick with the machines for now though.

are you a full-on bodybuilder, in that you enter competitions or is just a hobby, a personal thing to look muscular? just out of interest id like to see a photo of your shape. im taking monthly photos of my progress so i'll put them up once im at a stage im happy with.

that bodybuilding site has got me very keen on learning the full facts behind it all, and how best to use weights, though im reading a lot of contradictory points about carbs, proteins, aerobic vs anaerobic, etc. things like eating 8 small meals per day aren't an option for me, but i dont think im doing *that* much damage to my metabolism by eating 3 meals per day.

kingfish, what is the logic behind lager having low points? i dont quite understand the WW system, is it not based on calories?

It's based on calories/kilojoules and saturated fat, as far as I'm aware.

are you a full-on bodybuilder, in that you enter competitions or is just a hobby, a personal thing to look muscular? just out of interest id like to see a photo of your shape.

Full-on? Nah, just a pride/confidence thing. I've been at it for about four years, but never really had proper direction (or sufficient time) until just recently, so the results have only ever been basic. I can take photos, but I don't know if posting them in this thread, and therefore rubbing 9% body fat in the noses of people who read this and are struggling, is terribly fair. The gym thread, perhaps?

Everyone contradicts everyone else in health and training. It's really really bloody annoying. Most of the time whatever you do is okay, as long as it makes sense and is backed up. The bodybuilding site is also aimed at a wide range of people, and it can be difficult to know who's writing some of it; not to mention the fact that everyone's different, and so some techniques and supplements that work for one person may not work for another.

Stick to three meals if that's what suits you. Again, everyone's different.

s.rose, as per your request:

http://www.4bitterguys.com/adam/before.jpg

^ 2003-ish(~80kg)

http://www.4bitterguys.com/adam/after.jpg

^ 2005-ish (roughly where I am now, but perhaps 1-2% less body fat)

Had my meeting today. Have lost a total of 5 lbs since starting 2 weeks ago, so i'm down to 248 and change. I haven't weighed less than 250 lbs in several years.

(for body type analysis, i'm a shade over 6'1" with a decent back & legs from years of the rowing machine and bike; biceps & upper chest need much work, tho)

Also, i've dropped 20 lbs from last spring/summer, which is astonishing, since i think i drank MORE after changing jobs.

Brilliant! If you keep doing what you're doing, there's no reason that it shouldn't continue to drop.

What's the best way to do sit-ups? I wanna start them but I'm worried that I'll do them wrong and they'll be ineffective, or give me a hernia or something. Any diagrams or videos online to show the best way?

They're more effective if you keep your feet up against your bum and pull your chin toward your hips, rolling into it.

I read/was told once that only a small movement was needed for a sit-up to be effective, but I'm not sure if that's just an excuse to do relatively lazy/easy versions, rather than fully pulling myself up to meet my knees, which I'm not convinced I could even do one of.

Yeah. If you go all the way up, you're just rocking up and down. Your shoulders must be off the surface but you don't want to be sitting upright. This is what I mean about pulling your chin toward your hips: you lift by pulling with your abs alone, not by swivelling with back, legs, glutes etc.

If small movements are easy, you're not doing them properly.

It's probably something you need to be shown, actually.

thanks for those pics AA, very interesting. can i ask what your height and age are, and what BMI you were in the 2003 shots? i was about the equivalent of those 2003 pics when i began this whole thing 3 weeks ago so it'd be good to compare. your shape in the 2005 pics looks just excellent, it's definitely something to be proud of. i hope i'll move toward a more intensive weights routine too, once ive dropped this excess fat.

i did my third weekly weigh in this morning and it seems ive lost 7 pounds in the past 3 weeks, which im pleased with as i dont feel like ive been depriving myself at all, and even if a few bad habits drift back in eventually there are some that i'll never go near again (insanely sugary soft drinks for one) knowing what i know now. this also means that im on the very brink of entering the 'healthy' BMI - i'm 0.1 away from leaving the 'overweight' section.

having a meal out for valentines day but the plan is to just have breakfast that day, and do a strong workout at the gym so even if the meal comes to 1000 cals i'll still be under the basal rate.

as (i think) i said on the other thread, a major plan for later in the year is to move to a place with a spare bedroom and buy some workout equipment for it - machines that aren't coated with a strangers sweat! my own music blasting out! no pain-in-arse travelling to and from the gym! - but what are the best and most essential basics to start with? im thinking a decent exercise bike with a digital display, a small set of dumb bells, a basic ab cruncher. will i need a bench too? what else is vital? and where could i find a decent weight training routine, without paying a trainer?

can i ask what your height and age are, and what BMI you were in the 2003 shots?

I'm 34 in March, and ~75kg and 178cm. I'd have weighed about the same in the 2005 pic.

Not a clue about BMI, sorry. I don't even know what my BMI is right now, I just know I was massively unfit in 2003. (The relatively small drop to 75kg is fat loss offset by muscle mass increase, so weight alone is a misleading indicator.)

your shape in the 2005 pics looks just excellent, it's definitely something to be proud of.

Thanks! My current goal is to double that - not in fat loss, but in muscle size.

btw, taking unflattering photos like mine above are really important, so months/years later you have something to look back on and remind yourself what you've achieved.

i did my third weekly weigh in this morning and it seems ive lost 7 pounds in the past 3 weeks, which im pleased with as i dont feel like ive been depriving myself at all (...) this also means that im on the very brink of entering the 'healthy' BMI - i'm 0.1 away from leaving the 'overweight' section.

Wow, this is fantastic. Obtaining results like this is what keeps you going.

what are the best and most essential basics to start with?

Honestly, I'm not sure. I've only ever used public gyms. At the very least, you'd need an adjustable bench, two dumbbells and a barbell (both with changeable weights) and a standing pulley mechanism. A swiss ball would come in useful for crunches and some pulley work. Forego the ab cruncher; you can do excellent crunches with just a bench and/or swiss ball, if your technique is correct.

If you get a bike, don't get a cheap one. They don't last.

where could i find a decent weight training routine, without paying a trainer?

I just came off Max-OT, which has given me incredible strength (but not size) gains in the five weeks I've been doing it. Links:

http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp
http://www.discussbodybuilding.com/Max-Ot_Complete_Routine/m_390/tm.htm

It's crucial to do the recommended warm-ups in order to avoid injury.

I recommend a trainer initially, just to show you good technique. Particularly in the case of the Max-OT programme, the weights are so heavy that you could injure yourself if you're not doing them correctly.

You should find some other good ones at bodybuilding.com. If you swap Max-OT and hypertrophy programmes (as I'm doing now), you're supposed to notice size gains along with the strength gains.

For situps, do them crunch-style(arms folded across chest), since with the fingers linked behind the neck, you can stretch your spine all to hell.

Said my chiropractor, at least, and he had the knowing of a lotta things.

Did my weigh-in today. Turns out I lost 5.2 lbs last week(wearing pajama bottoms instead of denim & a belt helps), so i'm down to 243 or so, for the first time in, again, several years.

Wow.

Expect a plateau soon, but don't panic when it happens.

Lost another 5.1 lbs last week. Down to 238. Wheeee.

Lotsa biking did it.

Do you still enjoy the biking?

yup

Brilliant.

a 5 pound drop each week sounds very high, is that sustainable? is it right that weight drops quickly at first then slows as you reach closer to your goal?

i'm getting a steady 2 pound drop a week and feeling just great for it. fitting into clothes ive not worn in years, positive comments from friends, love handles noticeably shrinking, the only thing left is a small paunch i need to shift. the split second decision to do this in mid-jan is pretty much the best thing i've ever done. big thanks to you AA for the encouragement and advice (that bodybuilding site you linked to has proven very useful).

i'm heading to the gym three times a week now and actually look forward to it. i didn't before because i didn't have a routine or plan, it was just half-arsed ad hoc bits of cycling and weights that didn't help at all. i listen to music and read magazines while on the exercise bike - i think the more hardcore gymgang frown on it because i'm not giving it 100%, but i'd rather give 95% and have 5% of enjoyment along with it.

i have a set target of reaching good slimness by june but i think i'll reach that well before then. i'll have to reassess what i want to do then as i imagine i'll have to do a different routine to the one i have now. i can't imagine my current eating habits changing much (a 400-500 deficit on the basal metabolic rate is proving no problem at all, amazingly). it makes me shudder to think about the junk i used to eat, out of pure ignorance, a little bit of thinking and calculating has made so much of a difference. before i did this i felt i was just sliding down an inevitable slope into fattiness, like so many of my family members and the people i know around me.

i'm planning for the 3 x weekly gymtrip to be a longterm thing, but what happens when you go on holiday for a cpl of weeks? does the muscle drop off quickly, is it bad to do this?

AA, do you have any basic tips for the gym? as in, increase the weights by one level every 2 months or so or whether its better to do small number of reps at a higher weight, or more reps at a lower weight, just general things like that!

also, does weight training increase testosterone? i could sense something like this in the hours after a session on friday.