that's awesome. I played a U/R deck in my 2nd draft and yea - some real shenanigans possible if you get the right uncommons. A lot of these cards slot together in funny ways.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 18:30 (seven years ago) link
i checked back into twitch for the new set and there are now multiple streamers on a given weeknight with several hundred viewers which is obv still p lol in comp with the really popular games but is tons more than was there even a few months ago. but yeah not always the most captivating personalities. kenji blazed the trail but i can't really ever get engaged watching him. caleb durward appears to be trying the kenji route with 365 day consecutive streams and is kind of funny at least. and there seem to be a raft of respected mtgo grinders with like 50 viewers whose streams seem pretty good from a learning pov but not so much for entertainment.
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 18:43 (seven years ago) link
yeah i always found kenji obnoxious and most of the other people just aren't that engaging. I still like MJ but he doesn't stream much anymore and is certainly an acquired taste. lsv is just a natural at it, probably partly from recording draft videos for years before twitch was even a thing.
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
the draft RS linked is the most LSV of LSV drafts ever
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Tuesday, 11 October 2016 18:56 (seven years ago) link
i miss watching dzy stream but am happy lsv is streaming mtgo more. i cant think of another streamer i actively enjoy watching and dont just put on as background noise.
i had my worst gp ever this wknd in atlanta, missing day two for the first time. not really happy w/ how i played but my pool was beyond awful. one thing that ive found tough in the practice limited weve done over the last two weeks is how hard it is to play from behind in this format. its not just obvious stuff like renegade freighter but the quality and cheapness of tricks, how most common removal seems better offensively, how little payoff there is higher on the mana curve. going in to the gp a couple of ppl were arguing for defaulting to 16 land because of how punishing flooding is and ive kinda come around to that. i was also p wrong abt the playability of the 0/4 reach two drop, although i think its now getting overplayed a little. mostly i wld like to figure out this format soon. at least standard seems fun
oh personal limited development criticism - i wish blue had a real unsummon effect. obv punishing for vehicles but i think thats fine given how strong the cheap ones are. still been happy getting ppl with the one mana one.
― ( ^_^) (Lamp), Tuesday, 11 October 2016 19:31 (seven years ago) link
by real unsummon you mean one that can hit untapped creatures? seems like that would just further contribute to the problem you're describing, the existing one is limited to defensive use rather than removing blockers. blue could probably use a little bit of extra help in this set though, i'm just not sure that's the place to put it rather than like giving it a real 2nd 2-drop instead of the unplayable curio vendor
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 19:50 (seven years ago) link
would have been cute if the curio vendor made a do-nothing artifact token, though thats the sort of thing they dont like to do these days due to fear of confusing new players
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 19:53 (seven years ago) link
sorry to hear atl went badly man. from the ~ 8 drafts i have done i have got the impression that the super low curve 16 land aggro style of deck is a trap because the midrange cards are so strong and there are punishing cards like the 1 mana bounce and the 3 mana instant artifact kill/lifegain. r/w in particular feels like the colour combo that's most disastrous if it doesn't get all the way there. the 3 drafts i won 1 was a sweet bw recursion/removal deck and the other 2 were basically just attacking with thriving rhinos which i think might just be the most powerful thing you can do in the set.
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 19:55 (seven years ago) link
the argument is more that even yr midrange decks shld be playing 16 land because theres so little to do w/ excess mana and getting behind on board is so punishing
re: unsummon i think its more that a disperse type card might reduce some of the outsized disadvantage of being on the draw rather than making slower more defensive decks better. agree re: blue tho - curio vender is one of the worst commons in the set and the 1/3 scry energy guy is... not great either
― ( ^_^) (Lamp), Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:03 (seven years ago) link
scry guy seems fine to me, but it seems like they have mandated that one of blue's 2 common 2 drops every set must be awful
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:07 (seven years ago) link
feels like every recent set has had a blue 2/1 with minor upside and they decided that was too pushed and went vanilla
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:10 (seven years ago) link
the skulk one was bad too though, need a better ability to make coral merfolk playable in this day and age. The one from bfz that gave unblockable late game and was also an ally is about where you have to land
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:18 (seven years ago) link
I didn't even play OGW enough times to learn whether the prowess one was playable
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:21 (seven years ago) link
nope
― Roberto Spiralli, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:28 (seven years ago) link
feel like 'we can't give blue good 2 drops at common' is more some maro colorpie nonsense than a real design issue
― iatee, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:31 (seven years ago) link
i don't even mind if theyre bad, it's just nice when they actually do something at all
DTK is a good example of a set where they found 2 that both felt good to put in decks (palace familiar and elusive spellfist)
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:36 (seven years ago) link
1/3 skulk dude that froze a guy for a turn from the last set was alright
― frogbs, Tuesday, 11 October 2016 20:37 (seven years ago) link
cider is right, Freighter is no Triplicate Spirits, and Vulshok Morningstar is a good comparison. It's probably the best common to first pick because you'll play it almost no matter what but once you've decided a color, I don't think it's the best. If I'm in red, I'd take Welding Sparks over it most of the time. With stuff like Sparks, Impeccable Timing, Appetite for the Unknown, and especially Select for Inspection, there's a lot of times you will lose tempo on Freighter. Trip Spirits I would take and play every copy I see, up to like ten copies or something. Like equipment, I don't think a deck wants more than 3 vehicles, though don't get me wrong, Freighter is still one of the best commons
I also haven't found a streamer I like as much as lsv. There's a few streamers that are skilled but lack charisma and then way too many who are entertaining but just aren't good enough players and I find myself yelling at the screen. I really miss when Owen T would stream regularly. On the streamer note, I recently played against Marshall while he was streaming, in a very challenging match that he ended up winning. Was cool to go back and watch his vid and see how I could have played better
― Vinnie, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:38 (seven years ago) link
I wasn't saying it was the best (haven't played the format a ton yet), just that it's kinda annoying to see a card like that game after game and even if it's not broken it feels like it was a mistake at common. would be pretty fine at uncommon.
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 00:48 (seven years ago) link
ok I can see that, but in my six or so drafts, I haven't found it to be a nuisance yet. it's still early in the format tho
― Vinnie, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 01:16 (seven years ago) link
It's super sad to me that Cuneo doesn't stream a lot anymore because it was always such a delight to watch him, but him stopping seemed to coincide exactly with him getting good again, so ~
― Gravel Puzzleworth, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 15:00 (seven years ago) link
I love cuneo too, one of my t5 fav players
― iatee, Wednesday, 12 October 2016 15:03 (seven years ago) link
apparently close to 100 ppl at the pro tour decided that the turbo aetherworks marvel decks were consistent enough, this is pretty weird to have such an all-in combo deck be a major part of standard after they've been suppressing them for so long
― ciderpress, Saturday, 15 October 2016 02:41 (seven years ago) link
so I was riding pretty high tonight after 4-0ing FNM with my spirits deck, didn't really think things could get much better. Then I opened Mana Crypt.
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 05:05 (seven years ago) link
not bad!
― Roberto Spiralli, Saturday, 15 October 2016 11:51 (seven years ago) link
nice work Moodles
So far I am not digging the Aetherworks deck at the PT. Keep uninteractive decks out of Standard please, we already have Modern for that. I do find it amusing though that Contingency Plan made it into a Constructed deck, a card I absolutely never would have guessed
― Vinnie, Saturday, 15 October 2016 12:19 (seven years ago) link
I mean to say that I am not digging WATCHING it, I'm sure it's a good enough deck to compete if that many pros are on it
― Vinnie, Saturday, 15 October 2016 12:20 (seven years ago) link
do we know which if any of the big teams are playing it? it could be a high risk high reward choice by worse teams trying to spike the event.
― iatee, Saturday, 15 October 2016 12:42 (seven years ago) link
This was the deck I faced in the finals last night. It turns out Aetherworks Marvel doesn't match up well against Spell Queller, and if you can't cast Aetherworks Marvel, the whole plan kind of falls apart. My biggest challenge was managing the Cranes because they are such good blockers against most of my deck.
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 14:54 (seven years ago) link
yeah spell queller just shits on the marvel deck
― ciderpress, Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:07 (seven years ago) link
Not sure which teams specifically, but they've had a couple pros on camera playing Aetherworks. Owen Turtenwald is on it, which is usually a sign that the deck is good
― Vinnie, Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:08 (seven years ago) link
no doubt it is good, it can pretty reliably crank out a turn 4 monster, but like so many combo decks in Standard, it is a bit fragile.
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:10 (seven years ago) link
yeah it seems unplayable if people are ready for it since there is so little you can do to protect your combo, finding it is already hard enough
― iatee, Saturday, 15 October 2016 15:44 (seven years ago) link
shota having multiple main deck ceremonious rejections was p lol yesterday
― ( ^_^) (Lamp), Saturday, 15 October 2016 17:30 (seven years ago) link
It's a good card!
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Saturday, 15 October 2016 17:34 (seven years ago) link
PT top 8 #5 for Lee Shi Tian?? I don't feel like anyone ever talks about electing him to the hall of fame, maybe because he's not even eligible for a couple more years, but I feel like this has got to cement him.
― Vinnie, Sunday, 16 October 2016 11:08 (seven years ago) link
was hoping there was a dynavolt tower deck, that's my favorite energy card in kaladesh
― ciderpress, Sunday, 16 October 2016 14:49 (seven years ago) link
pierre dagen has a ur spells deck w/ 4 towers
― Roberto Spiralli, Sunday, 16 October 2016 14:52 (seven years ago) link
oh wait, misunderstood
after flying high at FNM, I decided on a whim to take my deck to a PPTQ yesterday, which was my first competitive REL event in over a year. Ended up 4-2, 15th out of 48. I would have loved to sneak into the top 8, but I'm pretty happy with the experience overall. I took down 3 different energy decks: one Aetherworks, one Dynavolt Tower control, and one that was trying to make infinite servos. I got absolutely demolished by Grixis emerge, not really sure what I can do to stop that deck's graveyard shenanigans.
Now I'm getting ready for Game Day. I like a bunch of the U/W decks that popped up at the Pro Tour, so I may do something similar. I've also been gathering up cards for R/B aggro and R/W vehicles. Don't know which is the best direction. Spirits feels like it's not quite tier 1, but it has the element of surprise, not a lot of people are preparing for it, plus it is really good against all these combo decks that are popping up. It is pretty weak to delirium and emerge, and maybe 50/50 against the aggro decks.
R/B and R/W seem much more powerful, but are such known quantities at this point that they seem less attractive. Which way should I go?
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 14:44 (seven years ago) link
i like the spirits deck (both the full tribal version and the UW midrange one from the PT) so if you've got a lot of practice with that i'd just keep running it
i'm working on metalwork colossus ramp myself but i haven't gotten it to a state where i'm completely happy with it yet - i'll be playing either that or spirits at the grand prix next weekend
― ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 15:22 (seven years ago) link
do you have a particular spirits build you like or is that TBD?
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 16:00 (seven years ago) link
this is from memory since i don't have access to mtgo at the moment
4 mausoleum wanderer4 selfless spirit4 rattlechains4 spell queller3 nebelgast herald2 bygone bishop2 archangel avacyn
2 essence flux2 anticipate2 revolutionary rebuff2 unsubstantiate3 stasis snare2 gideon, ally of zendikar
8 plains8 island4 port town4 prairie stream
sideboard is up in the air but currently something like1 jace, whatever his subtitle is now1 linvala the preserver2 ceremonious rejection2 negate1 summary dismissal1 stasis snare1 bygone bishop2 elder deep fiend1 quarantine field3 blessed alliance
i think it is very possible that just replacing the anticipates+rebuffs with smugglers copters improves the deck, but i havent tried it yet. niblis of frost is also an interesting direction to go but requires changing a bunch of cards to make work and isn't good vs control which just won the pro tour
― ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 16:52 (seven years ago) link
This is very close to what I ran yesterday. I agree with swapping in copter. A couple changes I'm seeing in the PT lists is swapping Wanderer with Thraben Inspector and Nebelgast with Reflector Mage. I'm on board with swapping in Inspector, but I don't really like Mage over Nebelgast because you lose a lot of flash and spirit synergies, and a lot of the creatures you might bounce with Mage have strong ETB effects.
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 17:09 (seven years ago) link
the pt deck is very much just a UW midrange deck, not a spirits deck. that's fine as well, you just need to be comfortable with playing grindier games rather than aggroing people out
― ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 17:10 (seven years ago) link
I'm going to try keeping in Nebelgast, I don't feel like I'd get much from Reflector Mage. I'm happy with the deck's ability to shift gears towards control as is.
― Al Moon Faced Poon (Moodles), Monday, 17 October 2016 17:37 (seven years ago) link
nebelgast is definitely better in the tribal version
― ciderpress, Monday, 17 October 2016 17:39 (seven years ago) link
okay so I just got matched up against the same dude twice in a row during a Sealed league, which sucks because even though I won the first match (thanks to him getting colorscrewed in game 3), his deck was absolutely nuts and I got obliterated the second match. didn't know that was possible!!!
― frogbs, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 03:34 (seven years ago) link
yeah its not supposed to happen i dont think? but its definitely happened to me in constructed leagues where theres fewer players in the pool
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 03:45 (seven years ago) link
here's where i'm currently at with colossushttp://i.imgur.com/xXwRcpL.png
it really feels like its missing some major piece but it'd have to be a noncreature artifact and i've scoured all of standard and haven't found it yet - have tested everything up to and including aetherflux reservoir
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 19 October 2016 04:22 (seven years ago) link