WTF?: "Seinfeld"'s Michael 'Kramer' Richards in Weird-o-Rama Onstage Meltdown

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I wonder if the same level of controversy would have been generated if he had berated the hecklers along racial lines without saying the "N" word?

With "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f***ing fork up your ass", I'd say controversy was headed Richards' way. In fact, I think in one way that's the more astonishing part of his rant, due to the ugliness of sentiment undergirding it.

Joe (Joe), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:21 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I think it was the bald-faced hostility and hatred toward black people that makes it such an object of criticism.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:25 (nineteen years ago)

he was trying some sorta edgy routine that he didn't have the finesse to pull off and then when it went bad kept digging a bigger and bigger hole (from what i can tell about his cbs appearance above he ain't stopped yet) - dude's career is in a bit of a rut, he's definitely typecast/seen as 'kramer' which was probably a more limiting role to be stuck in than any of the others on seinfeld so he needs a shocking new direction to move in so there's some other aspect to him (saget's sorta done this in a way - ppl are nearly as aware of his blue rep as they are of his full house/afhv persona)(and when i saw that guy he got heckled LIKE crazy and dealt with it easily) for ppl to react to (for him to get work from), he sees borat racking huge laffs, $$$ working un-pc faultlines, he sees larry david racking huge laffs, $$$ working a confrontational asshole routine and he thinks 'well, maybe this will work' and then he forgets to be funny. there are white comedians who could (or could've at least, i can't name a white standup worth a fuck right now) get away with saying 'nigger' or anything on stage - lenny bruce, sam kinison. there are comedians who can have entire routines filled with warped hatred and STILL be funny - eddie murphy's raw is considerably more twisted and longer and way over the line than kramer's tirade (though to be fair at no point does murphy say call any particular women in the crowd 'bitches' or threaten to rape any of them)(or presumably stalk them after the show - hi there nude spock!), but OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE: IT'S FUNNY. murphy's able to pull it off and whether it's worth pulling off is debateable also but it's defendable. kramer doesn't pull it off and this isn't defendable. (cf. ying yang twins 'whisper song' vs. ying yang twins 'salt shaker' - same act, same sexual politics but i love listening to the latter while the former repulses me).

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:25 (nineteen years ago)

NOSTRADUMS OF YOUTOOB:

thegoyim (11 hours ago)
This guy is one fucked up individual damn thats messed up if you pay attention he says thats what happens when u intterupt the white man. You can tell he really means it too that the most horrible thing and I used to like the character of Kramer not that much anymore. There will eventually be a giant race war In Los Angeles mark my words.

songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:27 (nineteen years ago)

lol

mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:28 (nineteen years ago)

but the whisper song is awesome

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:28 (nineteen years ago)

I used to like the character of Kramer not that much anymore.

LOL "i now must reassess my love for this Kramer character"

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:30 (nineteen years ago)

THE BATTLE FOR GONDOR IS OVER, LET THE RACE WAR OF KRAMER BEGIN

songs and ballads of the bituminous miners (sanskrit), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:32 (nineteen years ago)

Applebees will be the first to go, crackers.

mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:33 (nineteen years ago)

You just know someone in the media is desperatly trying to get an interview with Bill Cosby on this.

mahalo 4 ur kokua (grady), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:34 (nineteen years ago)

There will eventually be a giant race war In Los Angeles mark my words.

http://www.blaxploitation.com/images/cover_gifs/cover_the_warriors.gif

Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:36 (nineteen years ago)

watching this, the part that creeps me out is "that's what happens when you interrupt the white man!"

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:36 (nineteen years ago)

To my ears that line still sounds like *grasping at comedic straws*

Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:38 (nineteen years ago)

Guy 'Just Giving You A Hard Time' Truly Despise You
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55267

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:40 (nineteen years ago)

yeah, what creeps me out about it is that he sort of tries to say the last two words in a "wacky" way, as if it only occurred to him halfway through the line that this whole "edgy" tangent isn't going so well and he might as well try to pretend the whole thing was just typical wacky kramer hijinks. x-post

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:42 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, "That's what happens *fuck, this isn't working* when you interrupt the (FULL ON KRAMER) WHITE man!!"

Hoosteen (Hoosteen), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:45 (nineteen years ago)

Dammit Hoosteen you just reminded me of that Tony Scott remake, blah

nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:49 (nineteen years ago)

Letterman gets right down to it: "I blame Borat."

Joe Isuzu's Petals (Rock Hardy), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:49 (nineteen years ago)

Here is the YSI for the (ridiculously out of print) Dick Davy record I mentioned upthread. It's all one file, about 40 minutes/38 minutes.

nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:54 (nineteen years ago)

There will eventually be a giant race war In Los Angeles mark my words.

--WARRIORS PIC--

More like:

http://www.sentimentosdilacerados.blogger.com.br/charles%20manson.jpg

walter kranz (walterkranz), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:54 (nineteen years ago)

Reggie Denny didn't photograph too well

nate p. (natepatrin), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:55 (nineteen years ago)

You're a good man, Nate P.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:56 (nineteen years ago)

watching this, the part that creeps me out is "that's what happens when you interrupt the white man!"

naw, if there's a saving grace to this mess, that's it. i mean, that's so not funny that ...

literalisp (literalisp), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 04:58 (nineteen years ago)

letterman is on now, and fuck is it awkward..

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:03 (nineteen years ago)

Wow, is this Letterman live? It's really confrontational and awkward. I can't believe the crowd was laughing a bit in the beginning.

Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:05 (nineteen years ago)

Some more about Dick Davy's masterwork:

Recorded live at the Apollo Theatre in New York in 1966. Davy, from Arkansas, talks with a drawl thicker than molasses.... 7 routines including Opening, Greyhound Bus, Non-Violence, New York Blackout, Things is Getting Better, New York Signs and Times is Changing...liner notes by Merv Griffin, Produced by John Hammond

Merv Griffin?!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:06 (nineteen years ago)

i missed the beginning! i wanted to see seinfeld tell them to shutup

michael richards voice was shaking. whole thing is pretty sad i think

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:09 (nineteen years ago)

kramer came across like a truly tortured soul.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:10 (nineteen years ago)

he is our tortured amerikkkan psyche in clown's makeup. wait, that's jerry lewis.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:11 (nineteen years ago)

now they're back from commercial and its wacky seinfeld comedy WTFAWKWARD

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:11 (nineteen years ago)

am0n otm (cept bout the whisper song)(shit's SLOW).

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:12 (nineteen years ago)

kramer came across like a truly tortured soul.

i didn't say that. just seemed really nervous, as he should

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:13 (nineteen years ago)

i know you didn't say that. i just said that.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:15 (nineteen years ago)

Merv Griffin?!

-- Ned Raggett (ne...)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/Seinfeld_s9e6.jpg

anticon jemima (ooo), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:20 (nineteen years ago)

a million miles AWAAAAAAY

j blount (papa la bas), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:25 (nineteen years ago)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xxl5QJFCqwY

Noilly Prat (kenan), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:34 (nineteen years ago)

roffles @ the Seinfeld ad next to that Onion article

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:38 (nineteen years ago)

i know you didn't say that. i just said that.

thought you were mocking the comment i made. my bad

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:45 (nineteen years ago)

why does it have to be "kramer" that goes and does this instead of someone really talentless like jim belushi or.. chris titus

am0n (am0n), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 05:58 (nineteen years ago)

well, kramer IS kinda nuts and those guys are just boring.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:00 (nineteen years ago)

I'm not trying to defend what he said, or play Devil's Advocate just for the hell of it, but for whatever reasons, I can't shake the feeling that this is just some bizarre, lapse in judgement. A bit borne out of frustration, which went horribly awry. Maybe I just don't want to believe that the man who played one of my favourite TV characters ever, could actually believe the things he said, and this is actually where his head's at. Regardless, it's going to be pretty hard to ever live this down. In my experience, people who really hold these types of beliefs are often much more careful about slipping up and actually saying anything out loud. Or maybe it's like what Eddie Murphy said in Delirious:


Racism ain't as bad as it used to be anyway man.
I mean its fucked up but,
They don't call niggers, niggers no more and shit.
White people don't say it.
Especially when there's niggers around.
So I guess I wouldn't know.

Hurting, I assure you that I am very real. (Julien Sandiford), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:31 (nineteen years ago)

why does it have to be "kramer" that goes and does this instead of someone really talentless like jim belushi or.. chris titus

It should have been Carrot-Top

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:32 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.cmfnow.com/images/products/aaron/carrot%20top.jpg
"Niggers niggers niggers!"*


*I apologize for ever aspect of this post

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:35 (nineteen years ago)

i just saw a clip of the letterman tape; so his excuse is that he went into a rage? I guess it wasn't an edgy bit gone to far after all.

kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:38 (nineteen years ago)

Heh, 1981 Richards plays teh rockist:

ihttp://youtube.com/watch?v=7mFyKNxXFGM&mode=related&search=

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:50 (nineteen years ago)

Not really that funny though.

A-ron Hubbard (Hurting), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 06:51 (nineteen years ago)

in more elaborate terms this is my take...

none of this thing had any artistic intent behind it. it was in no way a botched routine. yes, the rawness of the stage might have been a factor driving the reaction, but it was not the primary one. (though it's a notable irony that 'comedy' deals so often with race among other differences) no, the dude did something more elemental than that. he got called out and he felt seriously one-upped. so he flipped and did what lots of people in a position of serious weakness might do - he immorally went for a perceived comparative advantage. it could be i'm taller/bigger than you. it could be i'm richer than you. it could be i'm stronger than you. it could be i'm smarter than you. it could be i-know-how-to-reach-level-whatever-on-super-mario or i-know-more-klingon-than-you or whatever-the-fuck crazy thing some crazy dude comes up with. what could he tell about these people? he was whiter than them, and he went there. 'judgement' had nothing to do with it; it was a fight or flight reaction. maybe that's a revealing moment for which 'racist' is the only word. or maybe it demeans the concept to apply it to a sad dude who feels like a loser and says something in public that is not only hugely socially unacceptable/potentially career-killing but also something that he knows full well outside the moment is completely irrational, that in the moment means something to him emotionally indistinguishable from "you're short," and that he's obviously quite genuinely remorseful about. or at least to use the same word you would apply to someone who lucidly affirms/acts on support for racial violence and institutionalized prejudice. the fact that the impact was such a foregone conclusion should demonstrate how completely irrational he must have been at the time. not to mention the incredibly weird fork-torture-flipout, and his yearning for the good old civil rights era lynchings when he was, uh, a 7-year-old Angeleno. admittedly, it's harder to imagine he flipped out on that level for 2 whole minutes, but maybe being on stage and digging a big hole would do that to you.

again, this isn't to excuse or mitigate his behavior in any way. but i think if we just deem this a sudden outburst of long-suppressed secret racism, or even if we recognize that's not what it is but refuse to be concerned with the 'motivation' any further, we're failing to really address an issue that might be bigger than the dude who played Kramer. I actually think the Mel Gibson incident is similar in some respects, even despite the obvious differences there in his demonstrated history/associates/remorse level/personality. admittedly, also, Richards isn't much older than George Allen, and age/location were no bar to that dude's confederacy-fetish, but I don't really see Richards having spent his whole adult life using traditional racist (and misogynistic) trappings as outlets for his pronounced sadistic/antisocial tendencies (but maybe there are even lessons about the Allen thing here too).

the difficult question for me here is whether he 'believes' what he said, whatever that actually means. i think it's totally obvious that he doesn't hate black people or regard what he said as in any way appropriate. but i think this thing did reveal that he was willing to try to enjoy his white privilege, such as it is, however briefly/instantaneously, if made to feel worthless by someone who happened to be black. in simply stamping down that reaction as racist, though, are we also pushing the proposition of white privilege closer towards public secret territory?

i think he intuits some of these ideas, but doesn't entirely get all of them, and i think he's authentically at least somewhat confused about the meaning, both personal and public, of what he said. i give him at least some credit for assuming responsibility to confront both of those things.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:16 (nineteen years ago)

here is my take on it

http://bestmessageboardever.com/uploads/post-1452-1164078301.jpg

get yr coat luv uve jes bin pulld (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:19 (nineteen years ago)

oh, also, i count at least 7 potential nude spock aliases on this thread. how many do you get?

gabbneb (gabbneb), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:38 (nineteen years ago)

http://www.findagrave.com/miscpictures/kramer.jpg


i saw michael richards in a grocery store in santa monica about a year ago. dude looked old, sort of benign but just enough creepiness to make you think twice about approaching him.

timmy tannin (pompous), Tuesday, 21 November 2006 07:39 (nineteen years ago)


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