Buying A House: C or D?

more than half the UK population has one iirc

Been coming back to this thread intermittently -- thanks for all the Zillow links, Marcos.

I think our house's previous owners went to the same wallpaper store as the owners of 9402 Madison. Spent the first few years after we bought pulling that wallpaper off. Of course they hadn't properly prepped the walls before papering and so some of the plaster came off with the paper.

Marcos, if you're seriously thinking about looking in Cleveland itself, don't miss the Kamm's Corners area (around Lorain Ave/Rocky River Dr) -- some nice (and amazingly low-priced) neighborhoods around there, mostly between Rocky River and Warren. The schools are obviously an issue, and you don't have all the amenities of Lakewood, but there's been some revitalization of the Lorain Ave strip in recent years (and you're a short drive away from Lakewood).

As Brownie said upthread about Clifton Blvd, it is a wide road but it does clear out after rush hour and it stays mostly around 35 mph. Also you get a little more front yard on Clifton than with most other streets in Lakewood.

yea kamm's is a great neighborhood! lots of nice affordable homes, cute and sturdy bungalows eg http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/17701-Valleyview-Ave-Cleveland-OH-44135/33375991_zpid/ and http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4020-W-158th-St-Cleveland-OH-44135/33378056_zpid/. we've thought about it but schools are definitely an issue for us

dud. http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Santa-Barbara-CA/house_type/15891884_zpid/13712_rid/globalrelevanceex_sort/34.424611,-119.69508,34.406378,-119.736193_rect/14_zm/0_mmm/

ive been fascinated by some of the east side neighborhoods, there are some incredible homes, lots of suffering neighborhoods though but it's a huge mix. working in university circle i drive down wade park ave, east blvd, the glenville neighborhood, there are huge mansions in great shape next to decrepit and boarded up places. i also drove through east cleveland the other day and was blown away by how similar the housing stock is to lakewood, everything built around the same time period, very similar neighborhoods at one point but now one is a dynamic, beautiful, and increasingly desirable neighborhood and the other seems beyond any possibility of recovering. what's going to happen with some of those neighborhoods? i feel like in any other city a neighborhood like glenville - immediately adjacent to a major research university, world class art museum, art and music institutes, world famous orchestra, all the major cultural institutions with a beautiful park-like surrounding - would be untouchably expensive. sure some places look fabulous eg http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Glenville-Cleveland-OH/33408728_zpid/200981_rid/3-_beds/41.521418,-81.605099,41.513449,-81.617352_rect/16_zm/ and http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1467-E-105th-St-Cleveland-OH-44106/90186852_zpid/ but not far away there are places being auctioned off at $1 http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/729-Parkwood-Dr-Cleveland-OH-44108/33388800_zpid/

Sufjan's deal of a fixer-upper there looks move-in ready!

probably has a lovely view of the fires! I hate this place sometimes.

Ok just found out that the bank guy gave me incorrect numbers on the fixed refi (looked it over at it didn't seem right) and it turns out that even with a 30-year fixed I can lower my payment like $165/month, so I think I'm just gonna do that.

Fixed is the right way to go right now. Rates are so low.

I don't know how it is in Cleveland, but I'd have to assume it's not too different than where I am in SW Atlanta—nice, preserved and/or rehabilitated homes rub shoulders with run down blighted properties and it's just the way it is. Seems like the tipping point into a revival could come at any moment, or it could be another 3-4 years (or longer). I felt pretty comfortable buying where I bought, but at the same time I didn't really have to worry about schools. From what I understand, the school ratings have improved considerably just since 2014, and that's likely due to more people buying in these neighborhoods.

So, like, I wouldn't rule out some of those houses you're sharing links for, marcos. Especially if you can pick one up significantly under your budget. If you wanted to update the kitchen and bathrooms, or even just do some cosmetic upgrades on the exterior or the yard, you're helping all the properties in the neighborhood go up in value (and rising values attract more buyers!).

That said, don't buy the only nice house on a block. If there's one for sale and every other address is a blighted dump, let someone else be that urban explorer.

yeah, no shame in being an adult who doesn't want to spend all their free time on house renovation and community building when you have kids and other things to do. kudos to those who can do so.

Fair enough. I keep forgetting that kids basically rule out having enough free time for upgrades!

it didn't stop my parents but as far as I can tell, their primary hobby was (and is) doing shit to their house

I've got friends with 3 kids who happily spend any available free time finishing their entire basement, starting from bare studs and concrete floors.

But after spending a ton of time redoing a kitchen, bathroom, and living/dining room in our first house I have zero desire to do that at all. I'm capable but absolutely don't enjoy it, don't trust myself, and am super critical of any mistakes so it's absolutely not fun in any way and I'd much rather pay someone competent to do it for me.

both my brother and my sister live in old historic homes and with their spouses they have put an enormous amount of time and work into restoring them. they are DIYers and don't mind living in a work-in-progress. my brother for example has taken about 3 years to paint the exterior of his house. it is cool to see the results of their work, they have beautiful homes and have put a lot of personal touch into their projects, but seeing how long it takes them to do shit has kind of turned me off of wanting to buy a fixer upper. i want to live in an old beautiful house and im okay w/ doing some minor cosmetic things but anything big or time-consuming i'd rather not have to deal with it or else just pay someone else to do it

OK you guys we are seeing a place this weekend that's going on the market Tuesday. Price seems potentially high to me but it ticks a lot of our buttons. I gotta be honest I hate this whole process a lot. Like it's in everybody's interest but ours to create a sense of "OH MY GOD ACT NOW TOMORROW THIS HOUSE MAY BE GONE." I feel like what happens is we'll buy this place before it goes on the market and then afterwards everybody will be like "wau I can't believe you actually paid the asking price for that, we were just taking a flyer to see if anyone with more money than sense took the bait"

Five other families looking at this. Definitely the nicest place we've seen. But very expensive. We can afford it. But my plan was to spend less than we can afford. Is buying the most expensive house you can afford advisable on investment grounds? Or should I think of it as spending money for no reason?

Since rates are low, it's not the worst idea since borrowing any money is relatively "cheap". That said, how much you can afford can vary over time.

I mean, let's say there are two houses which we like about equally; should we buy the more expensive one?

which one is closer to work, is likely to develop more equity, needs more repair etc

and can you forsee yourself being in a situation where you couldn't afford the more costly one?

I guess just on proportional grounds I would expect the one that starts more expensive to develop more equity.
We're only looking in one neighborhood so everything is roughly the same distance to work.
Needs more repair, hard to know. The expensive one we saw has had more recent updates so might be lower-maintenance.
Work is stable enough that I see no prospect of getting caught unable to afford either one.
There is always a possibility though that family/work stuff might make us want to move cities -- could happen at any time -- don't really understand how this affects the project of buying a house

buy the one you like best if you can afford it but you need a cushion for repairs and the unforeseen

We looked at condos for a year and didn't like the inventory in our price range. So our plan has been to save for 4 more years, when we can hopefully afford the down payment on a house. So of course we finally found a reasonably priced condo that we like, but the seller will likely take another offer because our pre-approval was quickly thrown together on quicken. So we are losing our minds trying to get a more legit pre-approval from a local lender while an open house for the place is happening today. DuuuuuuuUUUUUUd (though I can only blame myself for this one).

I mean, let's say there are two houses which we like about equally; should we buy the more expensive one?

The fact that this is even a question is a great testament to the success of real estate brokers in obscuring the principal-agent problem.

You should always buy the cheapest house you like.

We bought our condo at the top of our range 7 1/2 years ago, and one of my assumptions was that the federal salary table gets an across-the-board increase of between 2-4% every year, so gradually the mortgage would fade into the rear view. Then the 2010 election led to 6 years of stagnant income for both of us, we had a kid in 2011, and now we've had to sell in order to move somewhere more affordable. It sucks.

imo after deciding to move cities 2 times in the last 4 years, & having to sell a house each time, I would recommend thinking pretty hard about how likely it is that you would want to sell in the, I dunno, 5? years after buying. Because selling, even when it goes well, is expensive (particularly wrt time but also money since you have to get it into "selling shape"). We sold our dumb great plains house 4 years ago in less than a week, but we'd worked hard for 4 months before that to get it ready. & this time, a year+ later it's still not sold, but we still have sunk silly money into fixing things per the inspection, like the furnace and hot water heater, even though they were still working fine for us. what a hassle! now we're renters again & even aside from having an owner who handles big repairs, I value our freedom to jump to a better place whenever we want. & I don't know about you, but I'm generally, as they say, "movable", if the situation sounds fun; I get antsy staying in one place very long (though I'm hoping this one will last b/c finally it's not a boring midwestern USA town)

maybe a rejection of our offer won't be so bad after all.

We somehow got the condo anyway because we had a flexible move-in date, and the seller liked the letter I wrote her. I guess I can thank our current landlord for not agreeing to offer us that year-long agreement I wanted a few months ago. Can also thank him for allowing us to live without power for 48 hours while he tried to get "his guy" to fix the master breaker. I am excited and terrified.

we keep finding these awesome houses all located on the same major blvd, this looks cool but it is also next a big apartment building so idk http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15316-Clifton-Blvd-Lakewood-OH-44107/33493833_zpid/

sufjan what did you say in your letter? it occurred to us to maybe write one to "distinguish ourselves" in a multiple offer situation (which seems extremely likely for any house we want in the current market) but i don't really feel like writing one

kitchen is kind of ugly in that one though

so many ugly ass updated kitchens, nice to have things newer and sleeker but sometimes they don't really go with the rest of the house

also these multi-colored checkered backsplashes i keep seeing in every new kitchen already look like they are gonna be dated as fuck in about 2 years

this whole letter-to-seller thing is somewhat new to me but I guess whatever works, works

my grandfather's house is closing in a week or so after my parents and uncle spent time this year cleaning it out and doing some fix-ups and renovations to get it sale-worthy. my dad showed me the letter the buyer sent and my response was an internal "that's nice?" but since he grew up there, the sentimental nature of the thing might have meaning

Cleveland rocks, marcos.

My grandparents lived at the corner of their residential street and a semi-major four-lane artery in Memphis. An ambulance or fire truck would pass by every six hours or so. You'd hear every thump from the bass speakers. It was not easy making a left turn out of there.

But I'll tell ya, my grand dad never got bored watching the very active world go by his house. At least he didn't live near a stop light like these folks in one of my hometown's nicer neighborhoods:

http://i.imgur.com/ku0vamd.jpg

sufjan what did you say in your letter? it occurred to us to maybe write one to "distinguish ourselves" in a multiple offer situation (which seems extremely likely for any house we want in the current market) but i don't really feel like writing one

― marcos, Monday, August 29, 2016 10:51 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, I'm not sure that a letter does much. It could be a trick where the realtor suggests that you write a letter, you get the place, and then the realtor can say "The seller loved the letter!" The letter seemed important for us because we were the first offer, but we also had a ridiculous-looking pre-approval from Quicken in which they even misspelled our name. So the letter was an opportunity to explain that we weren't actually going to use Quicken and that we were serious about buying the place. I also got a sense of who the seller was from her realtor, and I did try to appeal to that person a little bit. But as I said, I'm not sure that the letter really made any difference.

those multi-colored tile back splashes are dated NOW. It's like exposed ductwork in 2005

lol, you're right on there.

what will be the next dated house feature?

- subway tiles
- dark wood flooring
- white-on-white handleless kitchens

Dark wood is already dated!

yes that was a reach. potfiller taps also dated.

belfast sinks?

stainless steel appliances

I think the dated stuff isn't there until it is, once it appears, it immediately makes itself into a signal of a particular time in home remodeling. Black refrigerators.

Stuff like stainless steel appliances have been around for over a decade and doesn't date the remodel really.

I can't wait for front-loading washers to die, though.

in a tiny laundry room like mine, front loading washers are the only option. I couldn't be happier with it.

I'd still have Belfast sinks and Metro tiles. Still into slate floors in kitchens and bathrooms.

place we are trying to buy has many of these dated items. we are purchasing a renovation museum, really.

we will add to the kitchen exhibit for posterity.

front-loading washers are less of a trend and more of an energy and water efficiency thing, right?

yeah, you use a fraction of the water. the downside is that running a load is painfully slow compared to a toploader

dark wood is not necessarily dated! i've been in tons of older homes that have had dark stains and it looks classic. hardwood in general doesn't really get dated imo