Free Speech and Creepy Liberalism

i mean the issue here i think is people think its just fine to clown chait for getting salty about twitter criticism as "harassment" but there's a double standard when other people pull the same shit.

I guess the difference here is that what is being alleged is bigoted hate speech. And these people are saying they are receiving these kinds of messages so that they will be intimidated out of criticizing socialists for gender and race blindness. It's very serious. I don't doubt theyre getting such messages but I would like to have more specific information about who is sending these messages and why. Like is it a tactic from socialists or is it just ppl doing it to do it bc they are mras or what?

the whole "i saw this terrible thing and it happens every day but i can't give you evidence because it would bring on more bad things, but I _can_ write at length about it without giving you evidence and that won't bring on bad things" shtick is total nonsense. i mean, that _is_ why people clowned s- j- in the first place, well at first. Then she started organizing people to get accounts banned from twitter because they were clowning her, and things went downhill from there.

I'm a teacher with the summer off, so of course I've wasted a ton of time on social media. and I gotta say, the whole bad boys of socialism shtick is super-corny and tired.

Like, even when I agree with them, the whole atmosphere cultivated by the “big” socialist personalities and their #irony brethren is so noxious that I have no idea how they possibly think they're being effective stewards of their ideas. And it’s super-easy to see what happens when any of them go after one of their favored opponents: dozens of wannabe ironyboys rush in and fill twitter threads with total garbage. I’ve seen it enough times in the past, like, month that I’m inclined to believe that what gets DMed and emailed is worse.

like, the whole idea of "pig poop balls" as a "clapback" is basically the whole thing in a nutshell.

Also they only seem capable of having conversations with exaggerated cartoon versions of their opponents, which I guess is a complaint that can be made of their opponents as well. Leftists always seem to hate other leftists far more than anything else. Endless cycles of purges and recriminations.

What do you call this?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZrt1yfWIAE-j5C.png:large

This is pretty clearly Bruenig admitting to participating in organized harassment involving death threats.

first sentence "I didn't know there were death threats"

Last sentence 'I think she deserves to reckon with that stuff'

Don't you think that's gross?

I read "I think she deserves to reckon with that stuff" as "I think she deserves to reckon with her shitty behavior during 'Jacobinghazi'", so no I don't think that's gross.

You misread. Second to last sentence: 'this just unleashed that stuff'. He's clearly talking about the response. Which involved death threats.

aw man i saw the timestamps on those Bruenig tweets and thought he was back on twitter, thx for getting my hopes up Fred

yeah it's gross but don't overplay it

i suppose its merit comes down to whether you think of jeong's behavior during 'jacobinghazi' -- read by many as justifying the belittling of a rape victim -- as something that had to be 'reckoned with'. breunig thought she did. since he's no longer on twitter i guess he lost.

her account of it is here: https://sarahjeong.net/2016/01/24/jacobinghazi/

i won't claim have a clear map of that whole mess

hopefully we can all agree that freddie's current twitter look is desperate try-hard

No it does not come down to that. It comes down to whether or not you think death threats is an acceptable part of that reckoning. That is what Bruenig is saying. He is saying that the response involved death threats, that he participated in creating it, and that she deserved it.

Like, even when I agree with them, the whole atmosphere cultivated by the “big” socialist personalities and their #irony brethren is so noxious that I have no idea how they possibly think they're being effective stewards of their ideas. And it’s super-easy to see what happens when any of them go after one of their favored opponents: dozens of wannabe ironyboys rush in and fill twitter threads with total garbage. I’ve seen it enough times in the past, like, month that I’m inclined to believe that what gets DMed and emailed is worse.

― intheblanks, Friday, 15 July 2016 19:28 (1 hour ago) Permalink

nailed it

what the fuck is "jacobinghazi"? Some Michelle Malkin thing?

Idk if he endorses it I just think he isn't that concerned because he hates Jeong, like how someone on ilx responds to the news that Trump receives death threats.

Bruenig is a moron anyway -- nothing was more embarrassing than when deboer, greenwald, and the other dorks tried to claim he was fired for "daring to take on clinton" rather than for being a jerk and a PR liability

this is an interesting document to compare with the wearetheleft statement, since it seems to be making the same argument with due specificity and without being cloaked in the claiming-the-left stuff

http://sadydoyle.tumblr.com/post/144839773888/patterns

sady doyle was one of the main authors of the wearetheleft statement, right? She's definitely the one who gets @ed when someone wants their name taken off the list.

She drafted the whole thing I think

That seems to be the CW

Bruenig is a moron anyway -- nothing was more embarrassing than when deboer, greenwald, and the other dorks tried to claim he was fired for "daring to take on clinton" rather than for being a jerk and a PR liability

deboer still fighting that exact fight this very moment

what the fuck is "jacobinghazi"

some jacobin writer linked to a professional drama monger on twitter as an example of how not to treat certain issues w/ casual language and said drama monger predictably made lots of drama. really the details don't matter - what matters is that it came down mostly to a fight between the most hysteric of the identity twitteratis vs the socialism bros. neither side made out particularly well from it but i do think that in that particular case the twitter ppl taking offense made a lot of claims about meaning + intent that were not supported by the obvious facts of the case. and they also came under a lot of abuse that they probably did not deserve despite being dumb + wrong.

freddie blocked me and man i miss hate reading that shit

what the fuck is "jacobinghazi"? Some Michelle Malkin thing?

― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Friday, July 15, 2016 3:30 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

feud between different left twitterers, one faction associated with jacobin mag

xp look i wouldn't call one of the parties a 'drama mongerer' (even tho i guess i've already said worse)

i mean she made a very big deal out of a linked tweet that was really not a big deal by any reasonable adult standard.

Treeship, I agree with you in your description of Bruenig, but you're describing a misogynistic serial harasser. It's not okay to not be concerned with death threats, just because you hate people for whatever reason. And Jeong is not Trump. Bruenigs hatred of her is supposedly based on two tweets he didn't like back then (seriously, try and read his justification, it's a jumbled mess). And mostly he seems to hate women who speak against him. It is really not okay. It's not 'moronic'. It's not embarrassing. It's abuse and harassment, and it's a serious problem.

you already won this one fred

Treeship, I agree with you in your description of Bruenig, but you're describing a misogynistic serial harasser.

i only give your posts the gentlest of skims but... come on, this is not true

can someone praesee this latest episode of internecine death-of-the-left ilxing for me pls

you already won this one fred

― goole, Friday, July 15, 2016 4:42 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

are there really any winners here, are there

someone from the identity left published a letter calling out socialism bros for not taking non-class based bigotry seriously and they responded by calling her an apologist for neoliberalism and both are trying to claim that they are the legitimate "left" xp

standard

did we rehash the part where all the people rallying around the wearetheleft letter tried to explain how an alligator eating a baby wasn't a big deal because the baby was white.

that was good

yeah that was a banner day on twitter dot com

wasn't that just one tweet by one person?

Was it "all the people" though?

Both sides seem to be misrepresenting each other. There seems to be a specific case against a toxic culture the bruenig team are facilitating but it was abstracted so much in the letter. I think the responses to the letter are doing something similar. It just goes around and around as people try to claim the mantle of the "true left"

that alligator tweet was 'my daughters vagina is this ham sandwich' level good shit

the usual suspects went all in defending the tweet

jesus what's become of us all? i know i'm repeating myself but fucking god the blog era was better.

lol

These ppl all just like fights. They're like alcoholic Irish grandparents.

i don't think any of this is the "true left". there are funny political commentators and they clown people who are really right-wing but try to claim not to be, then the latter try to get them fired or banned or blocked or etc and round and round it goes and i read mainly for the jokes.

http://i.imgur.com/6wYCI1o.png

http://i.imgur.com/xVPGTOt.png

s-dy d-yle who absolutely knows what harassment is and opposes it in all forms and wouldn't engage in it nosiree

maybe one day they'll finally overthrow arthur chu and sady doyle and we'll have the socialist utopia we deserve

probably being a writer who lives on twitter and looks for paid publication opportunities and thinks of your work as political in some praxis-meets-the-road sense gives you a seriously compromised sense of the currency of words

who is the "true left" tho - like just those internecine trotsky + maoist groups? treesh and i were talking earlier this week about one particular drama among the far left that was completely incomprehensible on an ideological level and only made sense on an interpersonal level. but of course totally wrapped in supposed ideological language.