Eagle won't win power either. They've had nine months to plot this and the failure of organisation is genuinely astonishing even for this bunch of morons. If there was some guiding intelligence behind it you could imagine putting up Eagle as the stalking horse, and subsequently requiring a 'stop Eagle' candidate in addition to a 'stop Corbyn' one when she proves hopelessly incapable, might be engineered to induce the NEC to keep Corbyn off the ballot and have a proper contest but it's virtually inconceivable they are organised enough to plan something like that.
― On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:27 (eight years ago) link
The thread title is a specific choice, but by all means, let the imagination run wild - who would you be confident about a labour win under?
I'll note you've not answered me asking about where you get "what about when there is an opportunity to perhaps defeat them? i dont imagine corbyn would know what to do, or be happy in that position. supporting corbyn for that reason i think is only good for the short term."
(I ask because there's an obvious subtext, which I don't know if you're implying or I'm inferring, of "can we trust him to kiss Murdoch's ring?")
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:31 (eight years ago) link
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/jeremy-gilbert/facing-facts-progressive-strategy-for-2020
this should be compulsory reading
― and the Gove maths out Raab (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:35 (eight years ago) link
If I already read it on the main thread can I get a note?
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:37 (eight years ago) link
i take it you completely disagree with the argument, or else why wank on about "winning"?
― and the Gove maths out Raab (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:38 (eight years ago) link
Is that to me, NV? I don't believe I have - I'm very much in the "A victory by any means wouldn't be worth it"
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:42 (eight years ago) link
i apologise for misreading you then Andrew, i need to turn down my class paranoia at this stage in the game
― and the Gove maths out Raab (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:44 (eight years ago) link
(also as an Irishman the phrase "how about a nice cup of tea and a coalition?" is never far from my lips)
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 10:52 (eight years ago) link
If there is a snap election I'd be very surprised if Labour win, but I genuinely think there is a much higher chance of doing so under Corbyn than Eagle cos at least it's proven that a significant proportion of the electorate actually like him. And if they lose, I'd much rather the Corbynistas in opposition than the Blairites. So a no brainer really.
― chap, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 11:06 (eight years ago) link
Though whether an election loss under Jezza would lead to the hard left retaining any kind of influence on the party is questionable, I guess. Either way, we don't have much to lose so we may as well go with our principles at this point.
― chap, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 11:08 (eight years ago) link
ty for that link NV, i missed it on the other thread
― the hallouminati (lex pretend), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 11:24 (eight years ago) link
yes that gilbert article is great
― ogmor, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 12:00 (eight years ago) link
The thousands of #keepcorbyn comments on Eagle's facebook page!
― saer, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 12:20 (eight years ago) link
photos of the window of angela eagle's office boarded up with vote remain placards :*(
― conrad, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 12:29 (eight years ago) link
how Frank Field was involved in undermining the hard-left Labour candidate Lol Duffy in '87 (I remember the local freesheet going to town on the "Marxist")
Marxist was accurate in Duffy's case though, he was a member/"supporter" of the trot group that became Alliance for Workers' Liberty (who seem to have been the only far-left party to have supported a Remain vote this year afaict)
― soref, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 14:46 (eight years ago) link
17-15 win for the second vote on whether Corbyn should be on the ballot to be secret.
It's being taken as a strong indication they'll keep him off it.
― On a Raqqa tip (ShariVari), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 15:19 (eight years ago) link
Then it will look like an enormous stitch-up, and whoever gets in will face an immediate and ongoing crisis of legitimacy.
If they keep Corbyn off the ballot expect everyone to bundle in and Angela Eagle to be nowhere in the final voting.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 15:23 (eight years ago) link
and the number of votes to plummet
― conrad, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:12 (eight years ago) link
if they do try to keep him off the ballot then I can only imagine it will be a disaster, even from the pov of the Labour right. the pressure to reverse the decision will be immense, Corbyn's stand against the corrupt establishment will become the one and only issue of the whole leadership election campaign, and any discussion of his failings as leader will be off the agenda. I can't see any way that this would work out well for his opponents - I guess they hope they can tough it out and Corbyn's supporters will just leave the party in frustration?
― soref, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:21 (eight years ago) link
they can't keep him off the ballot, he'll just have to be 51'ed on to it like everyone else. same difference really but
― coygbiv (NickB), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:24 (eight years ago) link
to think of all the unheeded warnings that scottish labours' intimate intwinement in the better together campaign could alienate their voters for good
― conrad, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:26 (eight years ago) link
It's nice that the Labour Party are finally working together to save Britain from a grave and terrible threat
― Blandford Forum, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:37 (eight years ago) link
Who would have guessed the threat would be a guy who cares about justice and welfare for poor people but isn't that great at working the media! I never would have, lucky I'm not an MP!! :)
― Blandford Forum, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:39 (eight years ago) link
I mean I can imagine a situation where they force Corbyn to get the noms and enough no-confidence PLP voters are self-aware enough to realise what a fuckup it'd be to keep him out, so they nominate him anyway. It'd only need 11 out of 140ish right?
― JimD, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:41 (eight years ago) link
172 in fact
― JimD, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:42 (eight years ago) link
he needs 51 nominations from either Lab MPs or MEPs, and afaict there are only about a dozen or so who actually want him to be leader. but yes, I think that he could well end up getting enough nominations anyway due to the pressure on MPs from their local parties, fear of splitting the party and recognition that a leader elected without Corbyn on the ballot would be seen as lacking legitimacy.
― soref, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:48 (eight years ago) link
A few commenters here in need of a bracing fiery death
https://twitter.com/GuardianHeather/status/752902183012753408
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:58 (eight years ago) link
i'm not too sure that there's any point expecting honour or basic political intelligence from these fuckers tbh
― and the Gove maths out Raab (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 16:59 (eight years ago) link
real somewhere that the number of nominations needed for a leadership contest where there is no incumbent is only 15% of the PLP and MEPs, rather than the 20% needed when the election is a challenge against an incumbent leader, so theoretically Corbyn could stand down as leader and then would need fewer nominations. which seems farcical, but is in keeping with the general slapstick nature of the last few weeks
― soref, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:04 (eight years ago) link
Starting with all these cunts going on about "new, kinder politics" all the fucking time
― Just noise and screaming and no musical value at all. (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:09 (eight years ago) link
Is there any possibility that Eagle is targeting herself as some kind of machiavellian move that seems a little too obvious.Playing the victim does seem one tactic, but does is it one electable?
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:12 (eight years ago) link
doubt it, there's enough understandably enraged people, ne'er-do-wells and idiots to go around
― and the Gove maths out Raab (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:16 (eight years ago) link
xp top tip - when a female public figure is claiming harassment, the burden of proof is really really far on the side of those claiming she's making it up.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:17 (eight years ago) link
omg
https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/752915337939718144
― soref, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:24 (eight years ago) link
young passionate supporter of neolib economics
― and the Gove maths out Raab (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:31 (eight years ago) link
Wonder if the rallies Angela has will bring the same numbers in as Jeremy's short notice meetings did?
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:45 (eight years ago) link
ppl suggesting that the Corbyn lookalike thing is a set up, I was hoping that it was just some hapless bearded gentleman who happened to walk past and had no idea was going on
― soref, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:51 (eight years ago) link
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnLkyboWAAAAtfb.jpg
― soref, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 17:55 (eight years ago) link
The Jamie Vardy lookalike is on the phone now giving him tips.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 18:03 (eight years ago) link
The Vardy lookalike has been getting abuse since Norwexit
― lilcraigyboi (Craigo Boingo), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 18:31 (eight years ago) link
Corbyn on the ballot!
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 18:54 (eight years ago) link
poor Angela Eagle
― PLPeni (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 18:58 (eight years ago) link
So does that mean that Eagle is going to go by what she said earlier?THough i have just heard that Owen Smith is also on. So not sure what that will mean.
― Stevolende, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 18:58 (eight years ago) link
I mean it's despicable that this was even in question enough that people should have to feel relieved about this outcome but
hahahaha
― Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 18:59 (eight years ago) link
My guess is there'll be loads of them on the ballot paper and they'll all get out of the way for whoever ends up polling get closest to Corbyn.
Or they could all dumbly run up against each other and split the vote again, who even knows.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 19:03 (eight years ago) link
Can't actually remember the last time I heard some good news in politics, but otoh what a bag of arses they all look
― coygbiv (NickB), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 19:04 (eight years ago) link
stoked for the Dan Jarvis campaign where the leaflets just have the words "army man" in different fonts and sizes at random intervals
― Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 19:12 (eight years ago) link
"It's a man's life in the Parliamentary Labour Party."
― PLPeni (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 19:13 (eight years ago) link
I paid a pound
― O, Barack: flaws (wins), Tuesday, 12 July 2016 19:16 (eight years ago) link
Their next cunning plan will be to borrow a few million off Murdoch and pay a click farm to give Eagle 200000 fake Labour members :p
As much as I immensely dislike what the likes of Eagle represent and how they conduct themselves, I do almost genuinely feel sorry for her now.
― calzino, Tuesday, 12 July 2016 19:34 (eight years ago) link