"Dear Peter my brother's army of Wildlings and 62 House Mormont dudebros are riding to take Winterfell from the Boltons, we leave two days hence and will make camp at X." jfc
― a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:10 (seven years ago) link
Maybe they went around Winterfell and came back towards where the army would logically camp (same place as Stannis did, so possibly a very obvious location)? Maybe they built a tunnel under winterfell? Who cares really, they just did it.
xxxp
― silverfish, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:10 (seven years ago) link
no man this ruins everything
― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:11 (seven years ago) link
Littlefinger is coming from the exact opposite direction.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:12 (seven years ago) link
dude do you think he had to bring his entire army to the camp with him and attack from that direction?
― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:14 (seven years ago) link
they needed to rest after the journey, the camp is a decent spot
― nomar, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:14 (seven years ago) link
Like, a pretty big point of having a giant castle is that you control the area surrounding it. The idea that Ramsay would just sit and wait while the opposing army walked around to the very best spot to camp is stupid.
And we can go on and on and on and on and on.
And on.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:15 (seven years ago) link
The nitpicking around this show with the internet at large seems to labor on the fact that they don't show every single detail play out on screen. It's like that "where did the dogs go?" bullshit from earlier in the season. It takes no mental energy to fill in certain details that aren't explicitly shown. Sansa's motivations are more interesting than whether LF has scouts or binoculars at his disposal...
― Evan, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:16 (seven years ago) link
Showing Sansa besides Littlefinger was so extremely dumb. What did it even achieve?
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:16 (seven years ago) link
It reiterates that they had an agreement.
It also makes her showing up when Jon was punching Ramsay a little more logical than via a puff of smoke.
― Evan, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:18 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, but the problem is exactly that they never clarified what kind of agreement they had. So it just brings to mind a poorly handled plotpoint.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:20 (seven years ago) link
If they hadn't done that frederik would be complaining about the logistics of Sansa's movements this very moment
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:20 (seven years ago) link
If the vale turning up was unexpected, why not mention it to Jon? They were scraping th barrel for hope, and she had some.
― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:21 (seven years ago) link
How exactly would you stop an opposing army from doing whatever it wanted without actually battling it. Send out a constable?
― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:21 (seven years ago) link
Or they assumed grown ups could figure it out on their own? Xp
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:21 (seven years ago) link
They were scraping th barrel for hope, and she had some.
― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Thursday, June 23, 2016 12:21 PM (34 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
So "hope" would have helped him win?
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:22 (seven years ago) link
Did you miss all those times I mentioned Jon's knowledge of the Vale could have played a part in their battle strategy and negotiations with Ramsay?
― Evan, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:23 (seven years ago) link
Wonder how different the nitpicking will be to future generations when the show and possibly the book is all complete.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:25 (seven years ago) link
Put out an orange sign that says NO OVERNIGHT ARMIES HERE
― a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:26 (seven years ago) link
frederik considering that these are all plot points that are evidently left open and that the preview suggests the next episode will address in some way yr obsessive demand for answers right now is v confusing to me
― lazy rascals, spending their substance, and more, in riotous living (Merdeyeux), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:39 (seven years ago) link
I'm baffled by how Frederik apparently knows the geography of Winterfell like the back of his hand.
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:42 (seven years ago) link
Lol. I know the answer. It's because it's crap writing. But somehow that explanation upsets other ilxors.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:43 (seven years ago) link
The intro to the show is a map of Westeros, longneck...
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:44 (seven years ago) link
Do they show the exact position of the battle and how an army would necessarily approach it though? Is there a google maps of westeros somewhere on the internet?
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:46 (seven years ago) link
Hope wouldn't have hurt him, and that's my problem. And yes, morale can win battles. Again, I'm arguing something I don't care about only because people insist it's not an issue, and I want to know why. Why not tell Jon about the offer of an army from littlefinger? And I don't think there's a coherent explanation within the text. I'm happy with an outside explanation (which I think is right) that they did it for the vandal style swoop at the end.
― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:46 (seven years ago) link
Vandal = gandalf, but doesn't it always?
― inside, skeletons are always inside, that's obvious. (dowd), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:47 (seven years ago) link
Is there a google maps of westeros somewhere on the internet?
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), 23. juni 2016 19:46 (25 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah, kinda. A bunch of them, actually.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:49 (seven years ago) link
is it on their net site, Serial style? And have they added enough peasants? If so, maybe one of the google map peasants told LF where the battle was? Or maybe he just followed the noise and the crows?
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:51 (seven years ago) link
Sansa called LF from the payphone at the Best Buy parking lot
― Blowout Coombes (President Keyes), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:52 (seven years ago) link
The problem is not finding the battle. The problem is finding Sansa. Who should, logically, be on the other side of the battle from where Littlefinger would be coming.
It's pretty fun that you're baffled by knowledge of geography in a famously detailed fantasy series running thousands of pages long, though.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:53 (seven years ago) link
the thread getting clogged up with ppl who have apparently paid no attention and like deej calling other ppl dumb because he doesn't have a clue himself...i am the real victim here.
― Roberto Spiralli, Thursday, June 23, 2016 6:37 AM (4 hours ago)
― Say Something *NEW* about Rickon Stark (sarahell), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:55 (seven years ago) link
they went around winterfell...
― Evan, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:56 (seven years ago) link
Spiralli otm.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vwC9srXnGHY/T9aIK4GI9VI/AAAAAAAABB4/u_gbZIG0Dqo/s200/sticker,375x360.png
― Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Thursday, 23 June 2016 17:59 (seven years ago) link
The Ask the Maester guy has a *crazy* knowledge of Westeros etc. geography, there must be maps out there.
I think the nitpicking stems in part relative to the books, which are hyper-detailed to an obsessive degree. So when the show leaves huge, or even moderate, details out, it really invites head scratching. But then, as I've noted before, one of the most fascinating aspects of the whole project (and why I still follow it) is to see how an adaptation of books that have not been written plays out.
But even from the beginning, even before I began to nitpick stupid hobby details, I've had issues with the show's soapiness, which undercuts its drama. At times it's played out as camp, at times it's been unearned pathos, other times it's been really effective. But unlike a show like "The Walking Dead," which has been all shades of shitty under different show runners, with no end in sight, GoT has been erratic under steady leadership, with the direct involvement of the author, who helpfully provided or at least confirmed the arc of his unwritten narrative. Makes poor decisions or uneven episodes/seasons less explicable, except in the most obvious the-books-are-not-the-show sense. And even then, the books and show are bad/uneven/frustrating for opposite reasons: the books are stuffed with details that bog down the forward narrative flow, the show flies by but loses a lot of the details the books are famed for. Different animals, both kinda lame.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:05 (seven years ago) link
there must be maps out there.
http://quartermaester.info/
― reggae mike love (polyphonic), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:06 (seven years ago) link
the show's soapiness, which undercuts its drama
for you maybe.
― Say Something *NEW* about Rickon Stark (sarahell), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:07 (seven years ago) link
I have lots or problems with the show, contra Fredrick I don't think it's always well written, I just think certain criticisms make folks seem like the comic book store guy from simpsons
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:09 (seven years ago) link
http://0.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/55/41/e1ec0016ccb150a6a24dd210938a140d.jpg
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:11 (seven years ago) link
certain criticisms make folks seem like they couldn't have possibly passed English Lit in highschool.
― Say Something *NEW* about Rickon Stark (sarahell), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:11 (seven years ago) link
I was going to make a joke post along the lines of "Good episode but have we talked about why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Arryn army?" but I see you guys are on top of that well done.
― Interpretive Jigglypuffery (Leee), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:12 (seven years ago) link
Bingo. Why is it so difficult to imagine LF going straight to camp and meeting up with Sansa there? Because there are maps on the internet?
― human and working on getting beer (longneck), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:13 (seven years ago) link
why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Arryn army?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPHUZenprKc
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:14 (seven years ago) link
I get that it's meant as an insult, but this is a medieval fantasy story with dragons and ice zombies, famous for it's scope and detail. I don't really feel bad for acting like Comic Book Guy around it. It's a nerdy thing, and nerding about it is actually a pretty fun thing. Nerding about the details on the maps, the long history of the show, the parallels with European history. Most of the time it really enriches the experience. This thing with Littlefinger was just crap, though, and I hope and expect that GRRM goes in a completely different direction.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:35 (seven years ago) link
i think it's p obvious to anyone here who watches the show/read the books that it's poorly written because grrm is not really a v good writer. but it's not poorly written because we don't know the logistics of lf moving around winterfell
― dynamicinterface, Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:37 (seven years ago) link
Man, even Rob Bricken has a better handle on this than Fred does. That's . . . man oh man. Sad!
http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-didn-t-sansa-tell-jon-snow-about-littlefinger-s-arm-1782494488
― a 47-year-old chainsaw artist from South Carolina (Phil D.), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:38 (seven years ago) link
that gizmodo dude is otm because guys i already answered this --- sansa didn't tell jon because she wasn't sure they were coming, and they showed up at the last minute because that's what LF wanted
― jason waterfalls (gbx), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:48 (seven years ago) link
yeah and now Jon and Sansa have an army of ten wildings and Davos and a twelve year old girl and littlefinger has the best army in the north, with minimal casualties.
― nomar, Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:50 (seven years ago) link
do we know that the 12 year old girl survived?
― Say Something *NEW* about Rickon Stark (sarahell), Thursday, 23 June 2016 18:52 (seven years ago) link