Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

i should clarify and say, in certain corners of the far left. adbusters is famous for flirting with antisemitic imagery.

with all due respect, when/where is anti-semitism downplayed and apologised for all the time?

david schraub has written about this a few times if yr interested.

this might be taking this thread where it doesnt need to go, BUT

"on the far left"

im not condoning anti semitism on the far left, and i would prefer if ken livingstone stopped drinking and stopped doing interviews forever, but its not like his comments went unreported or with no opposition. you could not move that week for coverage of what he said, whether it was on the radio, the press, the internet.

basically, and im not saying anti semitism has magically vanished (i know someone who was wearing a kippah and had someone shout 'hitler' at him just a few years ago), but jones is somewhat right. in the heirarchy of discrimination, there is a higher level of defence/protection/support against anti semitism in the wider culture, and in the media, then there is for other types of discrimination/hate crimes, etc. simply, a higher level of visibility and discourse is allowed. jewish people are 'othered' far less than they used to be, some 50 or so years ago. sorry, but i have not seen routine anti jewish headlines in the last 30 odd years in the way i have seen routine anti muslim headlines in the last 15 (and in no way do i defend or condone any casual anti semitic sentiment or cultural intolerance from muslims, for that matter).

yes, its not really helpful to start ranking who gets the most protection, or whose discrimination is more accepted, etc etc. but chances are that if say, that attack had taken place at a synagogue, a) the daily mail would have it on the front page b) that sky news reporter most certainly would not have felt he was allowed to deny who the gunman wanted to kill, and why.

Why have Jews in the U.K. never won a reported discrimination case against non-Jewish defendants?

xp Please take your own advice regarding what is and isn't helpful.

In other actually relevant news, ex-ILXor Anthony Easton, also at MTV (should I start reading the site on the regular - I know now that Jessica Hopper is involved?)

http://www.mtv.com/news/2891856/how-can-we-say-it-gets-better-after-orlando/

this might be taking this thread where it doesnt need to go, BUT

If only you had left it there.

a ton of the wall-to-wall coverage i saw of the recent livingstone incident was explicitly apologetics about how he was not actually saying anything antisemitic, but i think, as long as we're detouring here for a moment, it's interesting how jews are so often the referent group for what it looks like when bigotry /is/ taken seriously when talking about disparate cases that have nothing to do with them (like someone in connection w/ this case might have noted that jewish places + events have been under extreme vigilance for years now - i've mentioned before on ilx how disconcerting it is dropping yr kids off at a school w/ an armed guard in front bc jewish schools in the neighborhood that week received bomb threats, but instead the discussion is "hey how come those jews get taken seriously" when also 'jewish hysteria' is also v much a serious trope). anyway, whatever.

Jones's "if this had been (x)" argument

Er, I could be wrong, but as far as I know he didn't say this - that's Peter Tatchell's line.

I don't believe he did, but he might have, he was obviously very angry. Also I didn't read too many apologetics for Livingstone tbh, but can we drop it?

xpost

I was referring to the guy who walked off the set and who kept trying to make the argument that had this been an anti-semitic attack, people would call it what it is.

yeah, i'm actually going to bump the antisemitism thread w/ my post bc i want to add something but that's the appropriate place for this discussion. i'd ask a mod to remove my post here but i don't feel like it and i'm sure we can all just ignore this tangent (or go to the other thread if there's more to say) xp

I'm confused as to how this came up -- what was the first post in the latest round that brought up comparisons to antisemitism? I feel like I am seeing responses with no referent.

the context was this interview:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/media/2016/06/watch-owen-jones-walks-sky-news-debate-whether-orlando-was-homophobic-attack

In context I have no problem with that quote.

but we can/should take it to the other thread

Alfred, I shared your piece on Facebook and it was very well received. One friend (who is gay and latino) said it would stay with him a long time.

If someone's downplaying an attack on a minority it's because they have an agenda which in their mind trumps the rights and protection of that minority.

It's pretty obvious what that agenda is here.

Alfred, I shared your piece on Facebook and it was very well received. One friend (who is gay and latino) said it would stay with him a long time.

― 6 god none the richer (m bison),

❤

i liked that piece too. nice one.

Yes, me too - posting Anthony's piece wasn't in any way a mark against yours.

oh man our company just sent out an email that one of the victims worked for us :( :(

St@nley Alm0d0var III
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/orlando-nightclub-mass-shooting-pulse-victims/

@issielapowsky
"It’s an assault on the ability of free people to live their lives, love who they want, and express their identity"- Trump on Orlando

@DougHenwood
Trump got woke!

FWIW, the Roswell, NM man who massacred his family (wife and four kids) on Saturday was caught in Mexico.
http://www.koat.com/news/5-people-dead-in-roswell-home/40019230

Did not see this coming.

http://gawker.com/orlando-shooter-was-reportedly-a-regular-at-pulse-and-h-1781920316

In the preliminary reports, he struck me as a self-hating homosexual, judging by what his wife & colleagues said.

the deadliest homophobia is internalized homophobia

+ guns obviously

This doesn't entirely surprise me tbh.

It still feels a little too easy, to me, to write this off as "yup, a self-hating gay." I'll be curious to see where this goes, of course, but his presence at gay bars and on dating apps (particularly if he was antagonistic in these communications) doesn't automatically lead to a conclusion as simple as that.

True. Needs further confirmation.

Ah, my governor: https://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/rick-scott-refuses-on-cnn-to-acknowledge-gay-people-were-targeted-at-orlando-nightclub/

Chris Hayes, as usual, doing on the street interviews with Pulse patrons.

of course

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/police-hunt-gunman-opened-fire-w-va-state-park-article-1.2672447

Police in West Virginia responded to an active shooter incident outside a state park Monday evening in which three people were believed killed, officials said.

Cops from the Washington County Sheriff’s Office said that they were searching for a white pick-up truck with a wooden dump bed that may have been involved in the 6 p.m. shooting.

The gunman may be carrying an assault rifle, according to early reports.

Police said the gunman opened fire outside Cacapon State Park. At least three people were killed, officials said.

xpost FUCK

vigil going on right now. I didn't feel up to it (I'm sick, to boot) but lots of friends there volunteering or attending. my brother is at the vigil for his co-worker. fairly upset that in my exhausted stupor I missed my mother's text inviting us both to lunch, just wanted to see him and make sure he was ok. he's 34 but I always see him as my little 11 year old brother when this shit happens. another friend lost a former co-worker today, now that 48 of the 49 names are in quite a few others have as well.

read the article about the couple that was getting ready to wed and it's just too much. but offset it with my close friend's tweet about how she has fundraised $1300 for the survivors last night on Twitch.

then to hear that Christina Grimmie was in process of giving her attacker a hug when he shot her.....this is why I repress feelings.

the removing LGBT from their own tragedy shit is infuriating.......the same bullshit story of the same people who marginalize a group to where they have to band together and organize just to survive, now insisting we focus on the "Americans" that lost their lives instead of the LGBT community. Sure weren't doing much to make them feel like Americans as far back as a week ago.

have a feeling every club that can afford it (which is probably very few of them tbh) is going to upgrade security to install detectors....it's security theatre but if it gives us peace of mind I'm down with it.

also targeted Disney among other places before changing the venue. just thinking about if he had targeted one of the best things about Orlando, Fringe Festival, which isn't an LGBT themed festival but has many LGBT-sponsored/friendly shows. terrifying to think if he had showed up there.

meanwhile Pastor Steven Anderson can go fuck himself. social media shutdown needs to happen (though i slowly realized I picked good people as friends after this week)

in slightly better news, even though such a poll means little at this stage with such high rates of undecideds and pre-convention, even the "4% GOP-directed sampling error" Rasmussen has Hildawg comfortably in front. I don't love her, but keeping that fetid capybara out of the office is a must.

tho finding out that he's using Christie to get his #2 combos at McDonald's was a needed LOL today

What's often missing in a couple of the (less frequent these days, admittedly) dismissals of Disneyland and Walt Disney World is that it's one of the safest places on Earth for LGBT patrons and employees. Gay Days are massive. I can't begin to imagine the grief had Mateen done his deed last weekend.

oh yeah, it would have been cataclysmic.

from an article I just read in the Sentinel by a pal of mine, lots of local venues are indeed adding detectors (Universal did it last year).

The Abbey (a fun little cabaret/theatre spot) had ARMED GUARDS at its Tony Awards party. unthinkable a week ago.

thing is though no matter what measures you put in, the scary thing is anybody that is hell bent on wanton destruction and murder often finds a way to succeed. and most clubs don't have that kinda money. when I go to the Orpheum in Tampa, you walk by a doorman. no wand, no frisk - just a doorman.

I'm a little on edge about the prospect of going to the Orlando City match this Saturday tbh but I'm going to show up. security's fairly good there tho.

Much love, Neanderthal. I'm feeling more not less secure, which is not Soto-esque at all.

Much love to both of you. I spent much of yesterday consoling my husband, who was more broken up by this than he says he would have expected to be (post-Sandy Hook, I feel more numb than anything else about these things myself), but I cannot imagine how devastating it must be to have the kind of proximity to the tragedy that you guys have.

I really appreciate those posts, Neanderthal. All the best to you and your community. And to you too Al x

yeah thank you for your posts al and neanderthal and take care.

here are some pics from the Pulse vigil tonight - taken by a friend

http://i65.tinypic.com/m7w8ia.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/1424ojc.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/30lf3gk.jpg

If social media didn’t exist, I could assume the better impulses of “friends,” friends, and relatives. I’m hurt that I haven’t gotten simple queries: “Are you OK? How are you feeling?” “Did you know anybody who might’ve been in Orlando?” (a legit question, by the way, for not only is it Pride Month but the first weekend after class ended for thousands of primary and secondary ed kids). Questions that adduce the inquirer’s curiosity. Instead, I read posts that look like Bill Kristol’s talking points.

aw man...<3.

Worse, no acknowledgment that a majority of the dead were of Latin American descent.

this has been kinda surprising to me - most reports did everything but connect the dots which were fairly obvious to anybody reading. Especially given the state's makeup, really expected at least *some* mention or focus on that.

Inspiring images.

United, people are stronger than violence and hatred ever will be.

Amazing account from one of the bartenders at Pulse: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/surviving-orlando-shooting-pulse-bartender-902463

that last paragraph, oof

Being gay and Muslim:

“Gay Muslims are sending me messages, confused and afraid,” said Abdullah, who formerly led prayers at Light of Reform Mosque, a small congregation that met in a church basement in the capital. “I tell them, ‘Don't let one event make you think there are thousands of them happening.’”

Hurdles remain for many. When Fahd Sadiq, a 35-year-old graphic designer in Orlando, heard of the attack, it felt unusually familiar.

Sadiq had often danced at Pulse since emigrating from Pakistan 2½ years ago. Growing up in a conservative Muslim family, he was forced to marry a woman, then abandoned by his relatives when he divorced and came out as gay. He said his father arranged for him to be shot; he survived and left the country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t88X1pYQu-I

“The chair asks that the House now observe a moment of silence in memory of the victims of the terrorist attack in Orlando,” Ryan said.

As he crossed his chest and bowed his head, most of the chamber followed suit.

But a handful of Democrats walked out.

What followed the silence was an eruption of protest from Democratic representatives critical of Congress’s inability to pass — or on Monday even consider — gun control legislation that has been proposed in the wake of an American mass shooting epidemic. Democrats shouted “Where’s the bill?” and “No leadership!” after Ryan silenced South Carolina Rep. Jim Clyburn’s (D) attempt to ask when gun legislation would be considered, reported the Associated Press.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/14/paul-ryan-held-a-moment-of-silence-then-some-house-democrats-held-a-protest/