Thread of What Is Fascism And Is Donald Trump A Fascist

With a speech balloon from Tiny Elvis, apparently

Greil Marcus, on whether DT is a fascist:

I think it’s less a matter of policy—though mass deportations would require suspension or abrogation of civil liberties and the affirmation of or acquiescence to rule by decree—than the encouragement of violence by supporters against opponents that suggests an acting out of Mussolinism. On a national scale with executive resources that would be fascist. Read Philip Roth’s The Plot Against America, but remember that Sanders supporters have lately tapped into the same strain and their candidate has responded with a condemnation of violence that translates as “Go for it.”

https://greilmarcus.net/ask-greil/

idiot

Marcus with the moral equivalency.

so fascism is a latent impulse w/in the populace that can be evoked and actualized by authoritarian leaders (and would-be leaders) w/ who frame nationalism as a narrative of heroic redemption in a moment of terrible crisis.* so the trump question need only be, "is he an enabler?" does he give his supporters an opportunity to express the fascist impulse?

* as of this post, i mean

I wonder if this question hinges on whether you take fascism to be a distinctive political (even "rational") ideology or more like an ever present human instinct to be kept in check through civilization, sublimation, etc.

I feel like the whole 'GET 'EM OUTTA HERE' aspect of trump rallies is totally fascist. I hadn't seen it in a long time but I got to see it today during his carny barking tour stop in Anaheim.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/714189569793646597

the "i alone" thing is pretty fascist. also the fact that his platform is always changing, which means the campaign is about voters placing their faith in him rather than concrete proposals.

his very clownishness evinces a disdain for parliamentary procedure.

Third question itt is what does it matter
Fourth might be should usa ilx be so fixated on possible fascist d trump
Fifth prob could be could my hands be doing something less wringy and more beneficial like making a nice sandwich or playing the lute or holding the pages of a fine book or hitching a ride to a carefree place in which i could more productively and less frettishly pass the interminable fucking delay between this sorry shitheap of a process and actually casting my vote

This site is dying for want of a less stupid topic tbh

Sad!

:-(

I am appealing to u wonderful, intelligent and capable people to just not do this anymore

"topics are stupid, site dying, i alone can solve"

I wish that last were true, but im clearly begging for a community effort here

i agree with deems, actually, but i still feel drawn to worrying about stuff i can't control.

We'll have to get you all into watching the euros

can i recommend https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=brexit&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#q=when+is+the+brexit coming up v soon

u don't have to read the bad thread, deems

do you play much lute deems?

lol @ liberal voice of complacency

This may have already been covered but I think that fascism is generally defined more by what it's against than what it's for. Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were all about making their countries great again by being anti-capitalist, anti-Marxist and anti-all the minority groups. Trump seems to be going down this path by being against big corporations, the government and immigrants but being rather vague about how exactly he would achieve his goals

Then again maybe I'm just one of those European liberals who's all like 'look at this right wing American nut! He's just like Hitler!' I don't know

Mussolini, get it right.

@tinyrevolution
Most dictators need 20 years of absolute power to reach the level of hateful paranoid insanity that Trump is starting with

https://storify.com/case_face/a-trump-rally-in-greensboro-anger-in-here-is-palpa

Crowd won't clap for call for unity with LGBTQ

Bragging that he took credentials from WA Post. Crowd yells Kill them all.

Trump comparing immigrants to snakes

Crowd calls for Berghdal to be shot, hung

Confederate flags everywhere

Telling myself they're angry about the economy. About changing technology and industry. But there's so much base-level ugliness.

TLDR: he's a fascist

hi, am!

this is how nazi germany sharted

Has not convincingly indicated he believes in anything but the greater glory of himself.

Not provably a fascist, we'd have to see how he "governs." I'd prefer not to know.

I ran the how does it walk how does it quack test, and yeah he's a fascist

can a duck do the goosestep?

racist yes, fascist incomplete

suggest adopting working hypothesis

altamont reenactors

That rally livetweet is fucking chilling. Trump is just rubbing shit and dumpster juice into an already-festering boil on the ass of America. I can do without seeing the Mad Max-ification of this country in my lifetime.

dude is so explicitly a garden-variety fascist I'm a little mystified that we're still in disagreement. not all fascists have a coherent fascist ideology; there isn't any Soviet-style purity test for fascism. Trump's fascism is natural to his way of thinking: his ideas (a leader gets to respond to the mean old press as he sees fit; people should have to submit to whatever a leader thinks is good and right before they can do as they like in the country that leader runs) are instinctively fascistic

I don't get it either. I find the Cro-Magnons who support Trump vile but I at least get the vile place they're coming from. I totally don't get anyone who's still on the fence about Trump and doesn't see the legitimacy his presumptive nomination has gained him as a serious threat to civil society.

That rally livetweet is fucking chilling.

unbelievably so! i made the mistake of watching the youtube of that event out of curiosity this morning and i've been depressed ever since.

Barring some cataclysmic event that shifts public opinion in his favor, I don't think he has a chance of winning the election, but that's almost beside the point since he's done such a fantastic job of drawing the morlocks out of their holes and giving them a figure to organize around. We're going to be wistfully reflecting on those halcyon days when the quaint Tea Partiers were the right wing fringe.

Trump in Atlanta today. The rally will take place at the Fox Theatre, essentially right on the edge of Midtown's gay district.

When this discussion comes up I do always recommend paxtons anatomy of fascism. And one of his main conclusions is not to judge fascists by what they claim, but how they act. That makes it hard to tell about aspiring fascists, of course.

That is, there is no coherent fascist ideology. Which is kind of the point.

that ok that gays love him he has the best gays xxp

I am not mystified in the least that we are in disagreement about philosophical categorization, but I am *so* not saying why.

Not having been a polisci student in 30+ years, i'll take your word that fascists don't need a coherent ideology, but that suggests maybe several hundred people in US politics might be as fittingly labeled? My local fave would be Giuliani, even tho he has mercifully failed at being elected to anything since 1997.

I think a fascist is kind of necessarily a nationalist. like you can have fascist-sympathizing mayors but like...if I'm a fascist in my house, that's a pretty weak fascism, fascism is nationalistic in character

like you can have fascist-sympathizing mayors but like...if I'm a fascist in my house, that's a pretty weak fascism, fascism is nationalistic in character

― The bald Phil Collins impersonator cash grab (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi)

otm. that's the extent i would place some kind of "purity test" on so-called fascism. it builds a pyre of vainglorious nationalism, defines itself in opposition to specific threat groups supposedly responsible for the national fall, and tends to assume an absurdly triumphal (and at least implicitly violent) character.

Trump currently talking about how horrific it is that Germany is being overrun by non-Germans

question answered, lock thread