london

No offence mate - but that's a sure sign you're living in a bubble.

no offence mate - but you haven't a fucking clue what you're talking about. practically every flatshare in london has a cleaner - it's nothing to do with wealth, but keep sucking on your lemon if it makes you feel good about feeling bad about yourself.

I think my brother and his partner have a cleaner, or used to, that's the only people I've ever known to have one (it was her idea btw). They're in Glasgow. Though it's not a subject that comes up in general conversation ime.

the most silent shame

fwiw I've never personally known anyone who had a cleaner and I lived in London for 15 years. maybe I lived in the no-cleaner bubble?

maybe you lived in the no flatshare bubble

maybe I didn't?

well when i moved here, 8 years ago, i was earning absolutely fuck all and spending a quarter of that on transport, and the place i moved into had a cleaner. it's standard in my experience. twice a month between 3 or 4 people, about 13 quid each. i felt a bit weird about it initially, but it solves arguments in the flat.

i've heard of landlords making it mandatory as well.

maybe you lived in the no flatshare bubble

I did and do.

Fair enough. It's true that I was't flatsharing myself for the latter half or more of my time there, so it could well be a more recent thing. But I don't think any of my friends or workmates had one either, although I suppose it's true that it's probably not something that comes up in conversation a lot.

I did live in a houseshare in Reading before I moved to London that had a cleaner only she quit right when I moved in and they didn't bother replacing her.

As a member of the serving classes I should really mount some sort of defence of the cleaning profession, but the difference between what I do and what they do is that I am paid well for my work. Obviously there are exceptions - domestics in the bower of wealth - but it is a job degrading not by dint of its work but its pay.

My grandma still works as a cleaner in her 70s. Only does a couple of days a week these days though. For wealthy people and just ordindary elderly people. I think she's going to have to pack it in soon though.

your experience is getting a bit of a kicking here, is all, LG (and from me as well - never had one, never heard of it).

I just want to know what LG's cleaner makes in a year

*bangs fist on table*

Or rather, never heard of anyone I know having one - but maybe they all had (they really didn't).

more importantly, do they tip their cleaners?

dunno andrew, look at the flat share sites, most of the flats will say they have a cleaner. i've literally been looking for a new place to live this week. it's very common.

xpost she is independent i think, charges £10 per hour, if we assume an eight hour day that's £400 a week, £1600 a month. i don't know what wage starts to become demeaning, i was earning less than that when i moved to london first. i'd say at christmas there is a bonus of sorts as people tip her a lot then.

(Similar experience for me to LG -- nobody I knew in Glasgow had a cleaner, clear majority of people I know in London do. Especially parents)

none of the flatshares i lived in had a cleaner until my last one, which ironically contained the brokest housemates (three freelancers, and thus the messy and disorganised sorts, i got the impression all the arguments over cleaning had been had before i moved in) (there were five of us and even on freelancers' income it was super-cheap) (though that was more bc the entire flat was flukily cheap ah how i miss that rent)

i think it comes down to personal attitudes about cleanliness as well - i know one flatmate who wasn't earning a great deal was incredibly demanding about a cleaner coming every week, and moved out when the rest of the flat didn't want this. (nb i am not messy.)

Fair enough, I am five years out of the flatshare market - I had a quick look at the craigslist https://london.craigslist.co.uk/search/roo?query=london&private_room=1 and my main findings are a) none of the first 30 or so mention a cleaner and b) I need a shower now, wtf is wrong with you, men of Craigslist.

If everyone you know has a cleaner because all the people you know are in flatshares, it does say something about the diversity of the people you know tbh.

been flatsharing and knowing people who flatshare in london for five years and have never known anyone to have a cleaner, besides getting one in when moving out (which is something i've seen landlords demand). gonna resist telling lg that this is a startling indictment of his social circles tho

my landlord recently demanded we have one every week. i wouldn't say i was paying an outrageous amount of rent either, not at all.

as for the people i know, fair enough, mostly middle class i guess, kinda hard to imagine how i'd meet people who aren't in a city that's p expensive. it's not even just my social circle either tho, the flatmates i lived with all seemed to be down with getting cleaners too, and they're more out of my social circle, if still middle class of sorts. middle class is a pretty big bracket.

the other thing is that many of my friends use the same cleaner i use - people kinda recommended her to each other, she's a nice person and she does a good job.

it prob does say something about people, but i'd say more about their lives than their disposable income - that they're busy, that they're seldom home, that they live in flatshares with people they don't know.

the other thing is that many of my friends use the same cleaner i use

Aha! This could almost be approaching a useful answer to my original question. Where is she based, does she travel?

Much as I have appreciated the digression.

The only reason I didn't recommend her is that i suspect she only does east - I'll ask!

Btw @bob sorry for losing temper.

Yeah I realise that apart from my first flat here (where there wasn't really anything to clean), all of the others have some "Oh aye you're Bob's nephew" social tissue connecting some or all of the flatmates - I can see that a cleaner would be easier with strangers.

it's a neutral way of enforcing a minimum standard and a regular correction

LocalGarda, are you moving in with my brother or have my wires got extremely crossed somehow?!?!?

no you are correct!

pls to not send full history of ilx posts

I won't if you won't. *secret ilx masonic handshake*

haha - it is a nice place so should be good :)

So youse'll be sharing a cleaner then?

one cleaner for every room

Rosewood, St. John, Tayyabs, Petrus booked. Will try for Anchor & Hope, Barrafina for non-res meals. Stuff to see/do/eat at Brixton Academy before a show? FAP interest July 10-11-12?

*around* Brixton Academy, not *at*

I like Nanban, a Japanese place run by a former winner of Masterchef with a rep for innovative flavor combos. Just down the road from there there's a decent Ethiopian place called Asmara (I like the cocktails in 384 next door btw).

If you're there Fri-Sun evenings there are several interesting places in "Brixton Village" in the covered market, my faves include Kao Sarn, a good Thai, "Wings and Tings" West Indian; there's a place called Provincial which does big piles of delicious Columbian rice and steed and so on (they will let you byob if you ask nicely and buy yob from the nice little wine shop opposite).

But there are also v popular places doing burgers, pizzas, hipster fried chicken, barbecue, curry, steaks, DUMPLINGS!...)

I don't know why DUMPLINGS! got an exclamation mark and capitalized there.

Hmmm. Some Stettery suspected.

lol

Rosewood, St. John, Tayyabs, Petrus booked. Will try for Anchor & Hope, Barrafina for non-res meals

This is an A+ few days of eating btw. If you don't fancy the trip to the Anchor & Hope (or are knackered/straight off the plane) then your hotel is 5mins walk max from Great Queen Street in Covent Garden, which has (I think) the same head chef and does very similar food in a similarly casual atmosphere. The bacon and snail salad is available at both and is one of those dishes I go back to time and time again.

Also Great Queen Street allows you to book.

Yep you'll eat v well quincie, though I would say that for your one banker/oligarch type meal Petrus is a bit of an odd choice. Dinner/Hibiscus/Ledbury/Marcus/Ducasse all more reliable and interesting at the price, though none are massively reflective of London.

In Brixton, Kricket is really really great and I'd second Kao Sarn. Shrub and Shutter and Sovereign Loss great for pre/post show cocktails respectively. Went to Nanban once and found it pretty awful, decent sides but the ramen was borderline inedible. Nice beers though.

Yeah Great Queen Street is really nice. The distinugishing factors I guess are location (Anchor v near Old and Young Vic theatres) and the fact that Queen St is more a restaurant whereas Anchor and Hope is very much a pub. If it was a Sunday lunch I'd probably choose Anchor but I'm swayed a bit by memory of having done that before.

If you do go to Great Queen Street, the little cocktail bar downstairs is nice.

Of the ones I've eaten at (and with only one meal as reference point) - Ducasse > Dinner > Petrus > Hibiscus, but all are excellent.

banker/oligarch type meal Petrus

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to beat the record set in 2002 by 6 Barclays Capital traders.

They ran up a bill in Petrus of £44,007. This included three bottles of Petrus Pomerol from 1945, 1946 and 1947 costing £11,600, £9,400, and £12,300 respectively, and a £9,200 dessert wine. It's understood that the food was thrown in for free.

It would of course be de riguer to leave a four-figure tip in thse circumstances. (Very topical as the government has has just launching a consultation on tipping amid concerns that restaurants are confusing customers by not being transparent about the charges and who actually receives any tips)

London! Here I am!

6 hr overnight flight (not bad, really) landed around 11; we arrived at the most excellent Rosewood around 1 and, god love them, they had our room ready for us straight. I had a nice soak in the while spouse had a nap, after which we ventured out for a late lunch. Strolled to Great Queen Street where they had just closed for lunch, but welcomed us in anyway and sat us right in the window where we could keep an eye on some film project set up across the street. No real action, but our waitstaff said that Steve Buscemi had lunched there the day prior so I guess he is involved. Anyhow, we were pacing ourselves meal-wise and just had the smoked eel and bacon salad and nice lamb patties with romesco. Very nice and the waitstaff were a treat.

Continued stroll to Covent Market area which we didn't stick around in too long--crowded, stores you can find anywhere, etc. Back up to Queen Street where spouse had spied gentleman's salon; intrigued and in need of a haircut, he went in for what turned out to be an hour or so of man-grooming (cut, shave, ear-hair burning, eyebrow threading, nose hair trimming). Figuring I needed to up my own grooming game, I got a quick blow-out around the corner. I fell asleep in the chair and, upon waking with a jolt, the stylist laughed and said "jet lag?" Which was indeed hitting me hard despite having slept several hours on the plane (thanking u xanax).

Anyhow by the time we were both groomed it was BARRAFINA time. A+++ would eat entire menu at at future visit, but we exercised restraint knowing that we had St. John ahead in just a few hours. Really enjoyed it, great to get to watch the prep up close and personal.

So now I am cooling my heels at the too-loud (music) but otherwise very nice bar at the Rosewood while spouse investigates the sauna. St. John at 9 after which I am sure we will barely manage to get ourselves home to fall into our meat coma.

Plan for tomorrow is Suzy's recommended Portobello Road stroll, refresh at the hotel, then 9 PM dinner at Tayyabs. Would be happy for FAPing (god knows I owe a round for all or your London planning help) in the vicinity of either! Logistics are difficult only because we refuse to have international phone/SMS/data plans, so we'd need to coordinate in advance during our limited time using WiFi. I'll check e-mail tonight and again in the morning if anyone is interested in naming a place/time for a meet-up.

Otherwise, I'll just continue to liveblog here until someone tells me to piss off.

And hahahaha I have tipping questions but I am honestly not trying to open the ILX tipping can of worms! Would just like guidance from people less random than randoms on google.