i'm pretty sure standard procedure is to set your parking brake because it prevents the vehicle from rolling away once it is lifted
i know this from terrifying first hand experience.
frankly i think the main thing separating those who can change a tire from those you cannot is that the former have gotten a flat in an area where help was not nearby.
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:23 (eight years ago) link
I've changed a flat before but it never occurred to me that it was masculine. But then I'm on team throw-men-into-the-sea.
― eyecrud (silby), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:42 (eight years ago) link
Like the whole point of a jack is to use mechanical advantage to make the car go up, it's basically cheating, if someone were to change a tire on their own without a jack and just hoisting the car into the air while also unscrewing the lug nuts I might give them credit for being the beard-meriting paragons of hot masculine sex they see themselves as.
― eyecrud (silby), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:44 (eight years ago) link
back to the thread topic, though, people just dislike the alpha male, not necessarily a man who conforms to stereotypical masculinity
i was taught stereotypically masculine things because of my age and background (chivalry, how to wear a suit, do a tie, shoot guns, hunt/kill an animal, cook)
but i know a few men who were also taught the same things and it's their domineering, loud, impatient attitudes that make them less than amiable people, and i never want to interact with them, not if they have beards. it's this calling attention to yourself that is funny
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:51 (eight years ago) link
i *patched* a tire once, felt very accomplished. this was in not-great weather, outside my apartment. at the time i had no beard. this is my contribution to the thread at this time.
― goole, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:52 (eight years ago) link
or basically giving yourself more credit than you deserve
like you say silby, there is nothing inherently masculine about changing a tire
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:53 (eight years ago) link
what if you change it with your penis
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:58 (eight years ago) link
Trans women and nonbinary people can do that too.
― eyecrud (silby), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:58 (eight years ago) link
i change my own tires and then eat the old tires
― nomar, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:59 (eight years ago) link
there's a repair shop in our town whose motto is "fixing transmissions is our trans mission"
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 16:59 (eight years ago) link
not really
have you ever spread the resulting paste between two intact tires?
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:00 (eight years ago) link
think i read about that in a savage love column
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:01 (eight years ago) link
i *patched* a tire once
*bows down*
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:02 (eight years ago) link
I agree with ∞ that most stereotypical male activities are just an assortment of applied skills, often useful ones such as using a saw or changing oil in a car (nb: this is equally true of stereotypical female activities such as cooking or cleaning). What makes them odious is their association with the domineering attitude adopted by some men to emphasize their imaginary ascendancy over others.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:02 (eight years ago) link
GIS for "manly tire"
http://www.capecentralhigh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Blown-tire-01-26-2014_5905.jpg
― nomar, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:02 (eight years ago) link
note the beard
― nomar, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:03 (eight years ago) link
Patching a tire's trickier than changing a tire.
― pplains, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:06 (eight years ago) link
Though I wouldn't know first-hand, having never patched a tire.
― pplains, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:07 (eight years ago) link
yeah well the way i'd go about it is, first, grab th
― goole, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:13 (eight years ago) link
goole? GOOLE?
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:15 (eight years ago) link
i think a certain fetishization of "self-sufficiency" is what is really at the root of this stuff.
there's a paradox at the root of all this: that to sufficiently pursue "manliness" is to more or less call your own manliness into question. I think advertisers get around that by knowingly ironizing masculinity (like those diet dr. pepper commercials) so that your investment/detachment from notions of masculinity can always be subject to a kind of plausible deniability. hence you can enjoy your constructed "manliness" as derived from consumer choices while also being so manly as to know that your manliness is a real inherent quality not affected by consumer choices etc.
like, this is why hetero-normative guys wear pink shirts so often, maybe.
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:16 (eight years ago) link
it's really all kind of clever way to preserve, in the last instance, some essentialist notion of masculinity.
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:19 (eight years ago) link
Can we get into the cultural connotations of "peacocking" and how that factors into masculinity for a second? Because ryan's explanation doesn't make any sense to me in the context of why African-American men would wear brightly-colored clothing.
― i like to trump and i am crazy (DJP), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:22 (eight years ago) link
yeah scratch that...i just notice frat type dudes wearing pink a lot...no idea why.
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:24 (eight years ago) link
in this context i often think about how brad pitt is sort of feminized towards the end of fight club (eye liner, i think, and fur--fashion conscious choices that also try to pass themselves off as not fashion-conscious)
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:25 (eight years ago) link
idk the right term for it, not "contrary indicator", but something like that. the negating or shoddy effect of a fashion choice just highlights the underlying strength or desirability of the body -- shows of the essential (unfair) differentiation of bodies
like, american apparel can get away hawking garish and ill-fitting clothes because it's meant to be worn by skinny 19 y/o's -- ie people for whom clothing can 'cut against' rather than flatter. we sell ugly shit because it's meant for the beautiful, for people for whom fashion doesn't even matter (for now)
so pitt in FC can wear p much the same wardrobe as helena bonham carter because he's already brad pitt
white frat dudes in the prime of life can wear whatever goofy or fey getup they want, because it advertises what they can get away with and still be themselves
― goole, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:33 (eight years ago) link
good stuff
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:34 (eight years ago) link
i don't mind the preppy pink shirt thing, it's just another version of the pale blue/yellow summer shirt thing.
i'm less on board with dudes dressing like they're richie tenenbaum getting ready for coachella.
― nomar, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:35 (eight years ago) link
i think people should wear whatever makes them feel good
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:41 (eight years ago) link
well of course. we're just doing amateur sociology here.
― ryan, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:47 (eight years ago) link
around turn of the century pink was a boy's color (a pastel version of red) and blue a girl's color (for the virgin mary) - i think anything that troubles the genderization of colors is probably a good thing (for our collective sanity if nothing else - colors shouldn't have genders unless you have weird synesthesia)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 17:50 (eight years ago) link
I'm on record as finding toxic masculinity toxic.
But if some aspects of femininity can be performed as a lark - that is, if strong confident women can kick ass generally, but still enjoy a spa day or a night of frivolous frilly frippery for fun with friends - then there might also be an equally harmless way to perform masculinity.
Anyway the trick about tire-changing is not to jack it up all the way at first. That is, if you get the flat tire completely off the ground, you've gone too far. It will spin too much when you're trying to unscrew the lug nuts, especially lug nuts put on by compressed air. So you should leave the tire touching the ground while you remove the nuts. One may even need to stand on the wrench. Then once they're loosened you can subsequently jack the car up far enough to fit the spare.
You're welcome, pansies.
― game of thrones on ice would be awesome (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 18:04 (eight years ago) link
personally i just lift up the car with one of my hands and loosen the lug nuts with the other, it's not that hard and it saves a lot of time
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 18:07 (eight years ago) link
to ye
that is true
it's funny how we sometimes take things as a given
if the lug is (too) tight keep the tire low put a wrench on it and step on it to loosen it up
righty tighty, lefty loosey
― F♯ A♯ (∞), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 18:10 (eight years ago) link
my manliest prayer
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 18:11 (eight years ago) link
unfortunately about half of the things i'm obligated to regularly unscrew seem to be exceptions
it's a good thought exercise to occasionally imagine that you're a screw. if you're getting screwed, it's righty loosey lefty tighty.
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 18:18 (eight years ago) link
TIGHT, bros!
empathy's for girls iirc
― denies the existence of dark matter (difficult listening hour), Tuesday, 12 April 2016 18:19 (eight years ago) link
*flying chest bump*
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 12 April 2016 18:20 (eight years ago) link
Yeah, this is a thing with hegemonic masculinity that's discussed a lot in gender studies and critical men's studies: that one of the basic tenets of the hegemonic ideal masculinity is that a "real man" is self-sufficient, but another equally important tenet is that his masculinity needs to be constantly reaffirmed by other men. This is identified as the driving force beneath such masculine phenomena as bragging about your sexual conquests; it isn't enough to just know you've had sex with such and such beautiful women, other men need to know about it too, so that they can reaffirm your masculinity.
So stereotypical masculinity, which is often thought to be "innate" and "natural", is just as performative as stereotypical femininity, which is sometimes derided as "artificial" because of its use of make-up, clothes and other such signifiers. The masculine performance just requires other kinds of building blocks, but it's no more "natural" than performing any other social position.
I wrote my gender studies thesis on masculinity in Finnish rap music, and I had to think a lot about all this stuff, about how masculinity is performed, particularly with all the sex stories that are as common in the local rap music here as they are in its American counterpart. I included this joke to my text, because I think it's a nice summation of how hegemonic masculinity requires constant affirmation to work:
A cruise ship founders on a reef, and a man just manages to swim some miles and crawl up on a desert island. After recovering from the ordeal, he begins to explore and finds to his great surprise (and pleasure) that the only other survivor of this terrible tragedy is Cindy Crawford.They build a lean-to and find some food and water. After a few weeks, it becomes clear that help is not on the way, so they start to get intimate. The guy is clearly ecstatic for a couple of weeks, but one morning she awakes to find him moping under a tree."What's the matter?" Cindy says: "Is there anything I can do?""Well, I am a little shy about asking you," he replies: "But could you take some of that charcoal from the fire and paint a mustache on your face?""A mustache? Well... I... I suppose so", and she does it."Now, there's just one other thing. Can I call you Bob... like my friend?""Bob? Well... if it will make you feel better... all right.""Great!" he cries, looks at her and says: "Bob! You're never gonna believe who I'm fucking!"
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 11:23 (eight years ago) link
Critical men's studies writers like R.W. Connell would say that, at least in larger societies, there isn't just one form of hegemonic masculinity; different social groups and subcultures can have their own variations of "real" masculinity. So in mainstream African-American culture "peacocking" may be a way of performing hegemonic masculinity, even if it isn't so in mainstream WASP culture. Though obviously ideals of masculinity vary not just within different social groups but within history too: in 18th century Europe, for example, something similar to "peacocking" was a part of hegemonic masculinity, at least among the upper classes.
And you don't even necessarily have to belong to the hegemonic group of straight white men to come up with your own pecking order of masculinities. For example, I've noticed that some gay men who identify as bears deride more feminine gay men for being "twinks", i.e. for not being "real" men like they themselves feel they are.
― Tuomas, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 11:36 (eight years ago) link
guilty lol at that joke
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 13:40 (eight years ago) link
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/3b/35/2b3b35921c282686efe7e265ebc46d3b.jpg
― niels, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 13:58 (eight years ago) link
50/50 on trading my balls for fully functional wings
― tsrobodo, Wednesday, 13 April 2016 14:10 (eight years ago) link
never mix whiskey and red bull btw
― μpright mammal (mh), Wednesday, 13 April 2016 14:11 (eight years ago) link
I mean, in your stomach is fine. But not in a glass. No sir.
I want to say I was 16, maybe. My family went to Florida. I was—and still am—a passionate SCUBA diver. The water is the only place I feel graceful. I went by myself on a dive boat. There was me and maybe six other divers—all big, brawny men. I felt very small and hairless.— Chris Jones (@EnswellJones) July 17, 2020
― The GOAT Harold Land (Karl Malone), Monday, 20 July 2020 00:34 (four years ago) link
Incredible
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Monday, 20 July 2020 03:38 (four years ago) link