london

yeah otm. you can walk everywhere from there. another recommendation - i'd probably go to the delaunay or its small adjoining cafe - it's very old school, viennese themed but essentially quite british, brilliant service. particularly good for breakfast.

If you're around that area and i'm in the UK, i'd be happy to take you up to the top floor of my office which has a killer view of London from St Paul's to the Houses of Parliament, though might be slight redundant if you're also doing the London Eye, etc.

Oh god yeah, definitely go to the Delaunay for breakfast.

It's bourgeoise middle class question time: anyone recommend a cleaner? SE or central London (Waterloo to be precise).

Eating breakfast at the Delaunay is middle-class bourgeoise; you're about to cross the rubicon into the decadence of conspicous consumption status signalling.

henry hoover dot jpg

I can recommend you a tutor as well

The discrete charm of the ilx urban haute bourgeoisie.

everyone i know has a cleaner p much regardless of wealth - if anything it's because they're all in flatshares and it stops people arguing, or not cleaning.

knew you guys would pull through for me <3, tbh i have happily resisted crossing this rubicon for the longest time but circumstances now make supporting the exploitative part time low wage economy the preferential option.

...xp

I'm not in London but I do have a cleaner and it's the best decision I ever made
I am not posh but I have a toddler therefore about 8 minutes of free time a day

everyone i know has a cleaner

No offence mate - but that's a sure sign you're living in a bubble.

great thing about bubbles - self-cleaning

No offence mate - but that's a sure sign you're living in a bubble.

no offence mate - but you haven't a fucking clue what you're talking about. practically every flatshare in london has a cleaner - it's nothing to do with wealth, but keep sucking on your lemon if it makes you feel good about feeling bad about yourself.

I think my brother and his partner have a cleaner, or used to, that's the only people I've ever known to have one (it was her idea btw). They're in Glasgow. Though it's not a subject that comes up in general conversation ime.

the most silent shame

fwiw I've never personally known anyone who had a cleaner and I lived in London for 15 years. maybe I lived in the no-cleaner bubble?

maybe you lived in the no flatshare bubble

maybe I didn't?

well when i moved here, 8 years ago, i was earning absolutely fuck all and spending a quarter of that on transport, and the place i moved into had a cleaner. it's standard in my experience. twice a month between 3 or 4 people, about 13 quid each. i felt a bit weird about it initially, but it solves arguments in the flat.

i've heard of landlords making it mandatory as well.

maybe you lived in the no flatshare bubble

I did and do.

Fair enough. It's true that I was't flatsharing myself for the latter half or more of my time there, so it could well be a more recent thing. But I don't think any of my friends or workmates had one either, although I suppose it's true that it's probably not something that comes up in conversation a lot.

I did live in a houseshare in Reading before I moved to London that had a cleaner only she quit right when I moved in and they didn't bother replacing her.

As a member of the serving classes I should really mount some sort of defence of the cleaning profession, but the difference between what I do and what they do is that I am paid well for my work. Obviously there are exceptions - domestics in the bower of wealth - but it is a job degrading not by dint of its work but its pay.

My grandma still works as a cleaner in her 70s. Only does a couple of days a week these days though. For wealthy people and just ordindary elderly people. I think she's going to have to pack it in soon though.

your experience is getting a bit of a kicking here, is all, LG (and from me as well - never had one, never heard of it).

I just want to know what LG's cleaner makes in a year

*bangs fist on table*

Or rather, never heard of anyone I know having one - but maybe they all had (they really didn't).

more importantly, do they tip their cleaners?

dunno andrew, look at the flat share sites, most of the flats will say they have a cleaner. i've literally been looking for a new place to live this week. it's very common.

xpost she is independent i think, charges £10 per hour, if we assume an eight hour day that's £400 a week, £1600 a month. i don't know what wage starts to become demeaning, i was earning less than that when i moved to london first. i'd say at christmas there is a bonus of sorts as people tip her a lot then.

(Similar experience for me to LG -- nobody I knew in Glasgow had a cleaner, clear majority of people I know in London do. Especially parents)

none of the flatshares i lived in had a cleaner until my last one, which ironically contained the brokest housemates (three freelancers, and thus the messy and disorganised sorts, i got the impression all the arguments over cleaning had been had before i moved in) (there were five of us and even on freelancers' income it was super-cheap) (though that was more bc the entire flat was flukily cheap ah how i miss that rent)

i think it comes down to personal attitudes about cleanliness as well - i know one flatmate who wasn't earning a great deal was incredibly demanding about a cleaner coming every week, and moved out when the rest of the flat didn't want this. (nb i am not messy.)

Fair enough, I am five years out of the flatshare market - I had a quick look at the craigslist https://london.craigslist.co.uk/search/roo?query=london&private_room=1 and my main findings are a) none of the first 30 or so mention a cleaner and b) I need a shower now, wtf is wrong with you, men of Craigslist.

If everyone you know has a cleaner because all the people you know are in flatshares, it does say something about the diversity of the people you know tbh.

been flatsharing and knowing people who flatshare in london for five years and have never known anyone to have a cleaner, besides getting one in when moving out (which is something i've seen landlords demand). gonna resist telling lg that this is a startling indictment of his social circles tho

my landlord recently demanded we have one every week. i wouldn't say i was paying an outrageous amount of rent either, not at all.

as for the people i know, fair enough, mostly middle class i guess, kinda hard to imagine how i'd meet people who aren't in a city that's p expensive. it's not even just my social circle either tho, the flatmates i lived with all seemed to be down with getting cleaners too, and they're more out of my social circle, if still middle class of sorts. middle class is a pretty big bracket.

the other thing is that many of my friends use the same cleaner i use - people kinda recommended her to each other, she's a nice person and she does a good job.

it prob does say something about people, but i'd say more about their lives than their disposable income - that they're busy, that they're seldom home, that they live in flatshares with people they don't know.

the other thing is that many of my friends use the same cleaner i use

Aha! This could almost be approaching a useful answer to my original question. Where is she based, does she travel?

Much as I have appreciated the digression.

The only reason I didn't recommend her is that i suspect she only does east - I'll ask!

Btw @bob sorry for losing temper.

Yeah I realise that apart from my first flat here (where there wasn't really anything to clean), all of the others have some "Oh aye you're Bob's nephew" social tissue connecting some or all of the flatmates - I can see that a cleaner would be easier with strangers.

it's a neutral way of enforcing a minimum standard and a regular correction

LocalGarda, are you moving in with my brother or have my wires got extremely crossed somehow?!?!?

no you are correct!

pls to not send full history of ilx posts

I won't if you won't. *secret ilx masonic handshake*

haha - it is a nice place so should be good :)

So youse'll be sharing a cleaner then?

one cleaner for every room

Rosewood, St. John, Tayyabs, Petrus booked. Will try for Anchor & Hope, Barrafina for non-res meals. Stuff to see/do/eat at Brixton Academy before a show? FAP interest July 10-11-12?