london

Also in Shoreditch, I was there last weekend and Lyles is really nice - not to turn this into london restaurants

You are welcome to turn this into london restaurants with a large helping of gardens and walks!

This is all really great info. For the record, Parliament/Big Ben/Tower of London stuff isn't really my thing. I mean I've lived in Washington, DC for over a decaded and have not been to 9 out of 10 Historically Important Buildings here in my own town. Likewise museums; I do like a nice smaller gallery (a good rainy day activity), but in general I'd prefer to spend 4 days wandering about on foot.

One super touristy thing I am contemplating is Hyde Park on horseback, unless you strongly advise against this as utter nonsense. I'm a horsey gal it may be the only time I can convince my spouse to consider an equine adventure. We have some friends who did it and they had good feedback.

Restaurant choices are going to be so hard!!! On that note, do you think it is OK if I e-mail the Rosewood some preferences and ask them to do the reserving for me? I dunno if that is a British thing or an American thing, the outsourcing of reservation-making?

I'm popping over the london restaurants thread now!

Is Borough Market something to be avoided? I really love markets but maybe there is a lower-key, less touristy alternative?

I am crazy for cheese and may have to seek out a cheese-intensive lunch somewhere.

On a Sunday, there's Marylebone Farmer's Market and this place:

http://www.lafromagerie.co.uk/cafe-menus

I think that's definitely an American thing, I'd never even heard of it until now!

Borough Market should be fine during the working day I'd think - avoid at lunchtime (12:00-14:00) and you should be fine.

I'd get the hotel to reserve/do the admin for any nice restaurant that takes a credit card number when people book.

UUuuuuuugh I so don't want to play the reservations game, but I will if I have to.

OK so current list of restaurant contenders is: St John, Barrafina (no reservations, so we'll try for a walk in), Clove Club, Anchor and Hope, Ledbury, Dinner, Petrus, Ducasse, The Square, Fera, Quality Chop House, Palomar, Honey and Co. Plus I gotta fit in an Indian meal--chowhound mentions Dishroom, Trishna, Gykhana--any thoughts?

Too many restaurants, not enough days :(

xpost Thank you, Suzy. I'll try to narrow down to two "blow-out" meals and ask for reservation help.

Barrafina rewards those who queue at around noon - there are obnoxious execs that send their PAs down to save them a place, so the key is to beat them to the front.

Borough Market is a bit crazed - would avoid on weekends as in firm Not Fun territory but weekdays are ok. London is generally a bit shit with food markets as destinations like in Montreal or Paris or whatnot, but they're worth a visit if you're nearby. (Personally I prefer wandering round Selfridge's market or the mahoosive Whole Foods in Kensington but, er, they're not holiday winners.)

Bars - I have hearing damage and like quiet spots - the Connaught and Langham are both have great cocktail menus. I love Duke's in St James which is vv old school (Ian Fleming's old bar) but it's intimate, the staff are friendly, and there's usually lots of interesting non-scumbag posh people to eavesdrop on. I also like Heights in Oxford Circus, which is a merely average bar but has a superb views over London and the new BBC building, especially in the loos. If you can stand it, the Centerpoint bar near your hotel also has an excellent London view, but don't stay for long (and you need to book in advance).

Duke's sounds like my kind of place, for sure.

Any superb coffee near Rosewood? I'm going to need it after all these cocktails.

The Espresso Room is my local, and is still pretty good even though the owner changed last year. I also go to Fleet River Bakery which is about 100m from the Rosewood (and they do nice coffee in the Holborn Delicatessen onsite).

I probably wouldn't make Dishoom a priority, especially as you can't book. I hear very good things about Gymkhana and Trishna but they are edging towards one off blowout territory.

I would also avoid anything with a no-bookings policy, which rules out Dishoom. This does include the Anchor and Hope BUT that is basically a pub and it's easy enough to drink in relative comfort if there isn't a table. (NB I love the Anchor and Hope).

Booking most of the other places online should be pretty straightforward.

Maybe don't go to Borough Market, or if you do, prioritise going to Maltby Street and/or Druid Street market first. Better food. Borough has more of the quality of an event but the cooking at the food stalls is p shit.

I wouldn't avoid anything with a no-bookings policy - not least Barrafina or Anchor and Hope, which are pretty easy to get into. And make it easy to wait as you say. The no-bookings hell is more like burger restaurant du jour.

The queue in Barrafina is like "grand I'll have a glass of wine", unless it's manic, which it doesn't tend to be - the Drury Lane one is p easy to get into anytime at lunch, and before 1930 or so on weekdays. Even after that it's not bad. Barrafina is actually really nice for a weekend lunch imo - it has a very bright and relaxed feeling.

I wouldn't specifically go to that area to go to Anchor and Hope but given it's beside the Young Vic which was my theatre recommendation, then I probably would.

If you do end up at Maltby Street, there are a few good restaurants there. A small St John, a tapas bar called Tozino, and a wine bar called 40 Maltby Street. There are also many many breweries around that area which open on a Saturday, if either of you are into beer. If you only tried one, I'd go to the Kernel. They get a bit overcrowded but it can be a fun thing to do.

Personally I prefer wandering round Selfridge's market or the mahoosive Whole Foods in Kensington but, er, they're not holiday winners.)

lol I was actually going to say maybe go to Selfridges, I mean if you're on the kind of holiday where shopping might appeal. Also Liberty. Beautiful building and a nice shop.

I wouldn't specifically go to that area to go to Anchor and Hope but given it's beside the Young Vic which was my theatre recommendation, then I probably would.

Or if they're on the South Bank, from which it's a short walk, especially given most South Bank food options are best avoided.

It should be pointed out that if you're in Holborn you're in really excellent walking territory, right between the City and the West End, with Bloomsbury to the north and the aforementioned walk down to the river southwards. In fact you're really well placed for a lot of zone one stuff. Bloomsbury especially can be quite peaceful and worth a wander round if things are getting hectic.

yeah otm. you can walk everywhere from there. another recommendation - i'd probably go to the delaunay or its small adjoining cafe - it's very old school, viennese themed but essentially quite british, brilliant service. particularly good for breakfast.

If you're around that area and i'm in the UK, i'd be happy to take you up to the top floor of my office which has a killer view of London from St Paul's to the Houses of Parliament, though might be slight redundant if you're also doing the London Eye, etc.

Oh god yeah, definitely go to the Delaunay for breakfast.

It's bourgeoise middle class question time: anyone recommend a cleaner? SE or central London (Waterloo to be precise).

Eating breakfast at the Delaunay is middle-class bourgeoise; you're about to cross the rubicon into the decadence of conspicous consumption status signalling.

henry hoover dot jpg

I can recommend you a tutor as well

The discrete charm of the ilx urban haute bourgeoisie.

everyone i know has a cleaner p much regardless of wealth - if anything it's because they're all in flatshares and it stops people arguing, or not cleaning.

knew you guys would pull through for me <3, tbh i have happily resisted crossing this rubicon for the longest time but circumstances now make supporting the exploitative part time low wage economy the preferential option.

...xp

I'm not in London but I do have a cleaner and it's the best decision I ever made
I am not posh but I have a toddler therefore about 8 minutes of free time a day

everyone i know has a cleaner

No offence mate - but that's a sure sign you're living in a bubble.

great thing about bubbles - self-cleaning

No offence mate - but that's a sure sign you're living in a bubble.

no offence mate - but you haven't a fucking clue what you're talking about. practically every flatshare in london has a cleaner - it's nothing to do with wealth, but keep sucking on your lemon if it makes you feel good about feeling bad about yourself.

I think my brother and his partner have a cleaner, or used to, that's the only people I've ever known to have one (it was her idea btw). They're in Glasgow. Though it's not a subject that comes up in general conversation ime.

the most silent shame

fwiw I've never personally known anyone who had a cleaner and I lived in London for 15 years. maybe I lived in the no-cleaner bubble?

maybe you lived in the no flatshare bubble

maybe I didn't?

well when i moved here, 8 years ago, i was earning absolutely fuck all and spending a quarter of that on transport, and the place i moved into had a cleaner. it's standard in my experience. twice a month between 3 or 4 people, about 13 quid each. i felt a bit weird about it initially, but it solves arguments in the flat.

i've heard of landlords making it mandatory as well.

maybe you lived in the no flatshare bubble

I did and do.

Fair enough. It's true that I was't flatsharing myself for the latter half or more of my time there, so it could well be a more recent thing. But I don't think any of my friends or workmates had one either, although I suppose it's true that it's probably not something that comes up in conversation a lot.

I did live in a houseshare in Reading before I moved to London that had a cleaner only she quit right when I moved in and they didn't bother replacing her.

As a member of the serving classes I should really mount some sort of defence of the cleaning profession, but the difference between what I do and what they do is that I am paid well for my work. Obviously there are exceptions - domestics in the bower of wealth - but it is a job degrading not by dint of its work but its pay.

My grandma still works as a cleaner in her 70s. Only does a couple of days a week these days though. For wealthy people and just ordindary elderly people. I think she's going to have to pack it in soon though.

your experience is getting a bit of a kicking here, is all, LG (and from me as well - never had one, never heard of it).

I just want to know what LG's cleaner makes in a year

*bangs fist on table*

Or rather, never heard of anyone I know having one - but maybe they all had (they really didn't).

more importantly, do they tip their cleaners?

dunno andrew, look at the flat share sites, most of the flats will say they have a cleaner. i've literally been looking for a new place to live this week. it's very common.

xpost she is independent i think, charges £10 per hour, if we assume an eight hour day that's £400 a week, £1600 a month. i don't know what wage starts to become demeaning, i was earning less than that when i moved to london first. i'd say at christmas there is a bonus of sorts as people tip her a lot then.

(Similar experience for me to LG -- nobody I knew in Glasgow had a cleaner, clear majority of people I know in London do. Especially parents)

none of the flatshares i lived in had a cleaner until my last one, which ironically contained the brokest housemates (three freelancers, and thus the messy and disorganised sorts, i got the impression all the arguments over cleaning had been had before i moved in) (there were five of us and even on freelancers' income it was super-cheap) (though that was more bc the entire flat was flukily cheap ah how i miss that rent)

i think it comes down to personal attitudes about cleanliness as well - i know one flatmate who wasn't earning a great deal was incredibly demanding about a cleaner coming every week, and moved out when the rest of the flat didn't want this. (nb i am not messy.)