itt: consternation and wailing about Zach Snyder's upcoming SUPERMAN/BATMAN film/sequel to MAN OF STEEL -- official title: BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE

weirdly, my comics-obsessed friends have been loving this, which is the real shocker. one of them, who spent weeks quoting Harry Knowles as some kind of literary genius and kept whining about actual scientific impossibilities in TDKR is blowing his load over this. another, who was equally critical of Iron Man 3 and its supposed false notes, called this an "grown up superhero film for grownups".

they are viewing this as an overwhelming critic conspiracy to take down DC, as if critics haven't pretty much loved most DC movies. hell, critics didnt' even overwhelmingly hate MoS!

Another window into the perspective of the real world: My daughter's best friend (9) went to see it with her mom yesterday, so I asked her mom what she thought, and she said it was good. I expressed surprise, saying I'd read nothing but bad reviews, and she said she had heard it'd been getting mostly good reviews! So I expressed surprise once again, telling her that I had seen, like, one good reviews for every 10 negative reviews. And that were angry negative reviews. She kind of laughed and shrugged and said, well, if you like superhero movies, you'll probably like it.

OMG, how had I never heard about Snyder and Michael Bay being tight bros since college? It all makes so much sense now.

Michael Wilkinson, commenting on the design of the Batman look, said that, "Zack Snyder said that the most important thing for our Batman is that he come across as a really hulking big guy who's super pumped up. He's going to be even bigger than our Superman in silhouette. His strength is not through armor and gadgets, he's basically a tower of muscle. ..."

I have to say, he's very tuned-in to the lasting appeal of Batman.

Baneman

Another window into the perspective of the real world: My daughter's best friend (9) went to see it with her mom yesterday, so I asked her mom what she thought, and she said it was good. I expressed surprise, saying I'd read nothing but bad reviews, and she said she had heard it'd been getting mostly good reviews! So I expressed surprise once again, telling her that I had seen, like, one good reviews for every 10 negative reviews. And that were angry negative reviews. She kind of laughed and shrugged and said, well, if you like superhero movies, you'll probably like it.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 26 March 2016 13:26 (40 minutes ago) Permalink

Yeah the online echo chamber gives the illusion of consensus but out in the real world Transformers movies make a billion dollars

Definitely some Liefeld boobage going on

http://i.imgur.com/2e25W7q.jpg

Viz

http://i.imgur.com/IJ2Xnd5.png

god liefeld was/is so so so fucking bad

is snyder the cinematic liefeld?

hahaha, yes! Completely confident in his misguided instincts.

She kind of laughed and shrugged and said, well, if you like superhero movies, you'll probably like it.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, March 26, 2016

is it possible your daughter's friend's mom just has very poor taste and/or an uneducated opinion wrt people who like superhero movies?

"From Justin to Kelly? Well, if you like romcoms, you'll probably like it."
"Battlefield Earth? Well, if you like space operas, you'll probably like it."
"The Lone Ranger? Well, if you like westerns, you'll probably like it."
"SPECTRE? Well, if you like James Bond movies, you'll probably like it."

"God's Not Dead? Well, if you like being beaten repeatedly with a hammer, you'll probably like it"

tbh most of these superhero movies are on the same level as one another intellectually and feature 90+ minutes of action figures smashing together just produced with hundreds of millions of dollars

Same level? Not saying any of the movies are classics, or even close to excellence, but there's def a huge qualitative gap between the good and bad ones. Try sitting through Green Lantern.

Deadline, in a post predicting a $180 million weekend:

“It’s highly unusual to see a superhero movie that’s been panned like this with such a huge opening. Typically they open big and get great reviews,” said one insider, scratching their heads over the audience’s solid B CinemaScore and the 30% Rotten Tomatoes rating. Of those demos giving the film a higher grade: Under 18 at 22% gave it an A- while under 25 at 40% gave BvS a B+.

Not really that shocking tbh.

Isn't it normally considered really bad to get anything under an A in cinemascore?

A- I mean.

my superman obsessed musical colleague thinks this is the best thing ever; but he also loved Man of Steel and I doubt his ability to be rational about this character.

Was Superman Returns any good (by which I mean, was it better than Man of Steel?)

tbh most of these superhero movies are on the same level as one another intellectually and feature 90+ minutes of action figures smashing together just produced with hundreds of millions of dollars

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Saturday, March 26

tbh most cineplex movies of any genre are on the same level as one another intellectually and feature 90+ minutes minutes of action figures smashing together just produced with hundreds of millions of dollars. unless you're including Star Wars, Fast'n'Furious, Hunger Games, Divergent et al in the superhero genre?

Star Wars definitely about some action figures

is it possible your daughter's friend's mom just has very poor taste and/or an uneducated opinion wrt people who like superhero movies?

Possible? Likely. Most people have poor taste. And most films are pretty disappointing, particularly Hollywood films, let alone blockbusters. They're all degrees of bad. But this is one whose critical reception was pretty, almost shockingly universally negative, almost unusually so, and it seems to be doing OK, so I'd suggest what we/critics look for in a film is as always totally different from what the average movie-goer looks for. Which apparently is literally anything between 90 and 130 minutes projected on a screen. Which is why most big budget films are shit. Hollywood fails up.

Was Superman Returns any good (by which I mean, was it better than Man of Steel?)

it was v bad, but man of steel was worse. superman returns has at least a bit of respect for the character

I would love if these movies all got shot in sequence, starting with some huge spectacle and then getting shittier and shittier as the budget runs out, until the final scene are just the stunt doubles standing in front of green screens reading the script.

my superman obsessed musical colleague thinks this is the best thing ever; but he also loved Man of Steel and I doubt his ability to be rational about this character.

Superman is one of the few DC characters that I genuinely like a lot, and I find it incredibly baffling that anyone with pre-exising affection for the character would find Snyder's depiction to be anything but a thoughtless, cynical betrayal of nearly a century of generally similar depictions. Unless the dude just, like, really digs his costume or something?

i enjoyed Superman Returns but thought Kevin Spacey was a bad choice for Lex. no desire to go back to that movie but it's too bad they went away from that visual style, i really liked it.

actually watched Man of Steel last night for the first time. didn't hate it! the beginning was really cool w the Kryptonian space stuff but it really runs out of gas once he gets the suit. it was a really stupid movie that is good at emotional/Speilbergian manipulation and occasionally hints that it may have something to say or be about something but nah here is a shot of a little kid pretending to be superman with his doting parents looking onward.

mostly this Superman just almost always looks off-model to me. it's hard to explain. the first shot of him flying at the camera there was a huge blood vessel in his forehead and it was just....ugh.....no...

It's kinda like The Last Temptation of Supes with its lead unable to muster the gravitas

Possible? Likely. Most people have poor taste. And most films are pretty disappointing, particularly Hollywood films, let alone blockbusters. They're all degrees of bad. But this is one whose critical reception was pretty, almost shockingly universally negative, almost unusually so, and it seems to be doing OK, so I'd suggest what we/critics look for in a film is as always totally different from what the average movie-goer looks for. Which apparently is literally anything between 90 and 130 minutes projected on a screen. Which is why most big budget films are shit. Hollywood fails up.

tbh sometimes I'm entirely happy to just go catch a flick and eat some popcorn. and if I'm going to a theater it might as well be IMAX and it might as well be a spectacle. all I ask is to not be insulted! (looking at you, SPECTRE... and maybe Hunger Games...)

what irks me is the notion that all cape-and-tights flicks occupy a single place in the imagination or the moviegoing pocketbook. marvel has done exceedingly well precisely by recognizing that the superhero flick is not a genre in itself. the marvel studios productions (not spider-man, not x-men) succeed by placing superfolk in other genres (buddy comedy, caper, space opera, political thriller, supernatural thriller etc), which is why the marvel machine will keep cranking out solid hits in the face of all hopeful critical speculation that this particular pile of crap signals any kind of turning point or creative exhaustion.

the thing about superhero flicks is that they can't really adopt the "leave your brain at the door" method of action films because the whole appeal of their superheros is their mythological world and their characterization. at least some means of adept (even if simple) storytelling has to accompany the on-screen eye-candy.

and that's why this Supes is so far below the rest of its ilk, in addition to the reasons roger mentions. it fails at storytelling, world-building, and characterization. it succeeds only in eye candy (tho tbh even that part is overrated).

it's also kinda inexcusable cos you have an almost inexhaustible repository of comics to pillage from in developing the film.

which Superman comics do you think Snyder ought to have derived stories from

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v139/mengblom/bums/01_action_337.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3841/751/1600/WF289-HandNGlove.jpg

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--AmdQK38Z--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/18y813usuufvfjpg.jpg

https://alldaycomics.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/worlds-finest-ad5-e1386102470690.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/aeb109f75ae74971b1fcf2e4d08b4316/tumblr_nkph8ezR4L1sat64io1_500.jpg

WE WANT TOPHAT SUPERMAN!

Making out with Maxima on your dead wife's grave - that's pretty fucking cold Clark

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/e/ec/Superman_Family_Vol_1_184.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090208200953

https://pastorchrisjordan.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/superman-comic-2.jpg

http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/jimmyolsencover12.jpg

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives2/bloggraphics/051.jpg

http://mar1annec.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c0c9353ef0115707489c3970b-pi

Basically, "Superdickery: The Movie"

Mort Weisinger: The Movie

the 'superman accuses batman of being a witch' story would be a fine sequel for this movie http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2016/03/26/i-love-ya-but-youre-strange-that-time-superman-tried-to-burn-batman-at-the-stake-for-being-a-witch/

wasn't planning to see this tonight but I did. even more hamfisted than I expected but credit where credit is due it wasn't entirely shite. some fine shots, a couple of almost genuine moments worked in between all the false and forced ones.

in a weird way it kind of reminded me of the wachowskis' work of the last, oh, 20 years: it tries to do some things. it trips on its own cape at every turn but I kinda respect the attempt. Laughed out loud and rolled eyes almost constantly but I didn't come out angry like I did from SPECTRE... that said, the only reason I'm not calling for eisenberg to be shot into space is I assume he delivered the performance he was asked for.

I don't know why I went to this. It was bad and boring.

The one thing in the movie that I thought was amusing is the idea that the way to get Superman to show up right away, wherever one happens to be, is to push Lois Lane off a building.

It's revealing that that gag has gone from Lois jumping herself to prove a point, to being pushed.