2008 Primaries Thread 2: THE QUICKENING

xpost
Also, I think it's a bit chicken-little-ish - there are many structural reasons why the GOP and Dem primaries have turned out differently, and I don't think it's quite as apocalyptic for the Dems as that post makes it sound.

I agree that Democrats should distance themselves from identity politics since the way they're going about it is inherently divisive both internally and externally but that excerpt basically reads like "WAAAAAH I WANNA BE A BORG" to me.

^^ i agree. democrats could stand to stop worrying about the monsters under the bed. xpost

It's also trivializing otherwise heavyweight Democratic contenders. The race is degenerating into "So-and-so is a racist," "So-and-so is a sexist," "It's wrong to play the race card and call me a racist," and "It's wrong to play the gender card and call me a sexist."

More debates! Mark your calendars. April 16th on ABC and April 19th on CBS, Pennsylvania and North Carolina respectively.

It's also trivializing otherwise heavyweight Democratic contenders. The race is degenerating into "So-and-so is a racist," "So-and-so is a sexist," "It's wrong to play the race card and call me a racist," and "It's wrong to play the gender card and call me a sexist."

-- Daniel, Esq., Thursday, March 13, 2008 4:12 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

both race and gender cards were played by hillary

I do not deny it.

not that the gender 'card' didnt have some truth to it, just saying

Mark your calendars.

NO

I'll watch the ABC one if Charlie Gibson does it again. I'm not terribly interested in watching Katie Couric do the one on CBS, though, if that's the case.

The race has also devolved into "denounce" and "fire".

Let's give Kurt Loder a debate.

A friend sent HRC's interview this morning with NPR's Steve Inskeep. "She's a very convincing liar," she wrote.

http://cache.opt.fimserve.com/contents/772/38/38772/Tshirt_retrobama_sd_728x90.gif

DECISION 2008

snarrrrrrky.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/03/obama_campaign_skewers_clinton.html

this makes them look awful, why would they send out something like this?

I don't think it makes them look bad at all - the more they harp on the fact that Obama's won more delegates, more states, and more votes the less traction Hillary's non-stop re-framing effort looks like the pathetic narcissism that it is.

I don't think it makes them look bad at all - the more they harp on the fact that Obama's won more delegates, more states, and more votes the less traction more Hillary's non-stop re-framing effort looks like the pathetic narcissism that it is.

the other thing is a memo like this isn't exactly aiming at 'the people' - its aiming at journalists/people who are framing this argument. if you think the people voting in PA are avidly reading press releases linked on thepage you're kidding yrself.

Matt Bai's executive summary of candidate demos with nice graph

I don't know, personally I think sending out emails to the press that read like dailykos comments isn't a good look, but maybe voters won't feel the same way. wasn't obama supposed to civil and inclusive or something?

xxpost yeah there are different audiences but I can't believe it's possible to send out something this obnoxious and petty and simultaneously present yourself as an inspiring voice of change.

uh, people are moody

I think this is a great example of the generational divide between the two campaigns. This is the off the cuff, casual, twitter style commentary that is the main mode of communication in "Web 2.0" It seems like one of my friends could have written it!

Sent by Patrick

^^ this is the first thing i thought of while reading this

(except i thought it in a considerably less herb-ish tone)

also in my head i did not say 'web 2.0' or 'twitter-style'

HOOS you have a 'zing me' sticker on your back

Great response email by Obama. There's snark in it, but not the kind that will justify HRC getting indignant about it. And, after all, her campaign's initial email was hard-hitting and snide toward / dismissive of Obama's campaign.

Fight fire with fire.

I can't believe it's possible to send out something this obnoxious and petty and simultaneously present yourself as an inspiring voice of change.

Except that humor plays well than anger. It implies that he's ahead, that he's comfortable, and in charge. It also helps put the lie to her spin that she's got more experience; if they can counter her manipulations without looking too frustrated, HRC will be the one looking desperate.

Shakey, basically OTM

This is the off the cuff, casual, twitter style commentary that is the main mode of communication in "Web 2.0" It seems like one of my friends could have written it!

Yeah exactly. Is America really ready for a president who tweets?

even over Clinton

LOL

Anyway--I'm not really saying this is going to hurt his campaign in a significant way, just that it's absolutely painful to read.

get that checked out

Except that humor plays well than anger.

It's not really humor tho, just that exaggeratedly sarcastic "LOL yr argument is so stupid it's just funny to me!!!" tone that people adopt in message board arguments to hide their keyboard-destroying rage.

HOOS you have a 'zing me' sticker on your back

-- deej, Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:13 PM

yeah hence the 'distance myself' followup

where my surrogates at

that tone is called "glee," xp

no it's not

It's not really humor tho, just that exaggeratedly sarcastic "LOL yr argument is so stupid it's just funny to me!!!" tone that people adopt in message board arguments to hide their keyboard-destroying rage.

I didn't read it that way. I read it very much like the Obama campaign has generally played it. He's got a wry sense of humor that appeals, I think, and it's not as if the responses don't attempt to refute HRC's points.

i like you, hoos

so does deej he's just shy

The thing is I think they would make a wonderful ticket, with Obama as President. All their best and worst qualities matched!

That's just a reflection of personality, not of intelligence or ability.

I don't think either one of them will ever be veep to the other and I frankly don't think it's the best ge strategy, but as his veep, I can see Obama at times say to his staffers re: HRC, "Release the hounds!"

LOL

hahaha

I thought the annotated email response thing was great!

y'all are getting really fragile if you think that Obama campaign response above is going to hurt him at all.

i like you, hoos

so does deej he's just shy

-- deeznuts, Thursday, March 13, 2008 5:22 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

ha not at all, hoos is the man. i just thought the 'my inner monologue was cooler than his' sentiments were ripe for zingin

both race and gender cards were played by hillary

-- deej, Thursday, 13 March 2008 21:26 (Yesterday) Link

Every time you say this, you play the "deej" card.

honest assessment of the candidates?

breaking news: even my Hillary-supporting wife has now switched over to Obama. Even she now thinks Hillary wants to win at all costs. Which makes me feel a little tired of trying to be a cap'n-save-a-hillary Obama supporter.

What finally pushed her away from HRC?

I think it was something she heard Hillary say about why the Michigan primary should count. She got the feeling from it that Hillary had an inadequate sense of fairness.

that was the proverbial straw, anyway