immigrant & ethnic food cultures, white ppl & appropriation, foodies

^^ spoken like w true white person

Every culture on earth has stolen good ideas from other cultures and adapted them for their own uses. The world has never been any other way. Moreover, unlike stealing people to enslave them, or stealing land from those who live on it to dispossess them, or stealing power in order to rule over your neighbors, stealing ideas does no one any noticeable harm. And of all the ideas humans like to steal, pouncing on new ways to eat delicious food seems about the most universal and harmless of all.

I'm 'white' btw.

what does 'white' mean in this context?

i'm a russian-lithuanian jew by heritage.* does this mean i'm appropriating scotch-irish culture when i listen to old-time music? is it OK if i listen with my girlfriend who is from a scotch-irish appalachian family?

how about food? is my attempt to cook naan any more 'appropriative' than my attempt to make linguini?

i know i kind of butted in on an interesting discussion of chinese food! sorry about that. but the whole idea--broached in some of the articles posted by OP--that you shouldn't cook the foods of 'other' cultures is laughably absurd. in make it's so absurd that it's kind of helpful in pointing out the reductio ad absurdum quality of most arguments about 'cultural appropriation.'

*jews have not always been considered 'white' btw, and still aren't in some quarters.

xpost

i agree w/ aimless, of course.

also it's kind of nagl how some folks make a habit of making gross generalizations about 'white ppl' of a kind that would get them pilloried if they were made about any other group of people (like one of my coworkers, who has an uncanny ability to take any topic and turn it in a "white ppl are like..." direction).

note that i'm not claiming 'reverse racism' or some bullshit like that, it's just insultingly dumb and cheapens discourse.

(my coworker is chinese-american but never misses an opportunity to speak on behalf of african-americans, which he can do because he once spent a summer doing community organizing in the 'inner city')

Lol

Is popcorn.gif safe to eat itt

what does 'white' mean in this context?

i'm a russian-lithuanian jew by heritage.* does this mean i'm appropriating scotch-irish culture when i listen to old-time music? is it OK if i listen with my girlfriend who is from a scotch-irish appalachian family?

how about food? is my attempt to cook naan any more 'appropriative' than my attempt to make linguini?

i know i kind of butted in on an interesting discussion of chinese food! sorry about that. but the whole idea--broached in some of the articles posted by OP--that you shouldn't cook the foods of 'other' cultures is laughably absurd. in make it's so absurd that it's kind of helpful in pointing out the reductio ad absurdum quality of most arguments about 'cultural appropriation.'

*jews have not always been considered 'white' btw, and still aren't in some quarters.

Youre white

Thanks

Do me next

I'm irish

love 2eat w wites

i ate a thing from a culture that wasn't mine... it was delicious... i think i'd do it again 😈

oh sorry, did i take it too far????? deal with it

sleepinggabb

Do me next

I'm irish

― Ecomigrant gnomics (darraghmac), Sunday, March 6, 2016 12:24 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a bit of an escalation from "kiss me, I'm Irish"

"I decree: This Indian food, once properly Americanised, tastes delightful!"

-The White Eater

bout to go to flushing an appropriate some malaysian food into my mouth and also i think some of yall are (deliberately?) missing the thrust of this thread which in my reading is more about fetishization of immigrant food cultures as a mark of sophistication or worldliness, of which i am definitely guilty but i just cant leave that rendang alone

appropriate some of that for all of us, sounds good.

dayo, I dunno if you're joking, but it's not a good joke to police how a Jew self-identifies their race

And yeah, you Am/Aim/sleep guys haven't read the thread. It's more about authenticity narratives and foh/boh/prestige disparity than eating or cooking food from other cultures.

sorry! i was thinking of that thing at oberlin

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/12/23/oberlin_students_think_americanized_asian_food_is_cultural_appropriation.html

man, just posting that link made me hungry.

Do me next

I'm irish

― Ecomigrant gnomics (darraghmac), Sunday, March 6, 2016 12:24 PM (53 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is a bit of an escalation from "kiss me, I'm Irish"

― petulant dick master (silby), Sunday, 6 March 2016 21:19 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Post Celtic tiger mores are a little faster and looser than may have been previously the case

my korean-american coworker is returning to LA for a bit and said 'you know what i'm going to eat? some of that american chinese food'. tbf korean chinese food is pretty awful.

we rarely eat any form of noodle

https://bitchmedia.org/article/craving-the-other-0

While searching the internet for interesting freeze-dried food that I could take on my wilderness treks, I just discovered there is such a thing as freeze-dried kimchee. I may just culturally appropriate a few packages for my own unconsciously racist pleasure.

i eat what i can which tbh is not much these days

^ is that based more on financial or physiological factors, crüt?

there's a family-run, hole in the wall mexican place in my neighbourhood that opened a few years back, it was the only mexican joint in the area and the food is really good; but the décor is pretty basic and it's in a strip-mall. they stock the local latino free paper and the clientele is quite diverse, which is notable as there's not a ton of latino people where i live. about a year later about a block away some white people opened a mexican restaurant, it's much nicer inside, rustic wooden furniture, pleasant light fixtures etc. and received good press. it has a mural of like cantinflas or something with a sombrero on on the side wall. now im not going to firebomb the place or protest outside it or in any way get up in arms about it and i have eaten at white mexican places a ton of times, but as a person of latino heritage i think this particular resto with its proximity to the only other Mexican resto in the area and its mural is kind of shitty and im never going to eat there. the idea that cultural appropriation is just nothing and that people from ethnic minority backgrounds should just stfu based on the fact that some people take policing appropriation to an egregious extreme - "this person with no Genovese heritage made pasta w/ pesto: burn him" - seems silly.

physiological, ethical, and financial

my condolences. may the physiological and financial aspects heal soon. the ethical ones are probably better left alone.

It is probably worth mentioning here that in the USA the first big wave of immigrants from China came to the west coast during the gold rush in California and they not only became miners or laborers, but often were hired as camp cooks for mining operations or opened eating establishments in mining camps. While most of what was offered was common 'American' food like bacon & beans, pies, and pancakes, these immigrant cooks also invented Americanized Chinese food, most notably Chow Mein and Egg Foo Yung. I'm not sure who was appropriating whom, but these dishes are still staples in Chinese-American restaurants.

there's a family-run, hole in the wall mexican place in my neighbourhood that opened a few years back, it was the only mexican joint in the area and the food is really good; but the décor is pretty basic and it's in a strip-mall. they stock the local latino free paper and the clientele is quite diverse, which is notable as there's not a ton of latino people where i live. about a year later about a block away some white people opened a mexican restaurant, it's much nicer inside, rustic wooden furniture, pleasant light fixtures etc. and received good press. it has a mural of like cantinflas or something with a sombrero on on the side wall. now im not going to firebomb the place or protest outside it or in any way get up in arms about it and i have eaten at white mexican places a ton of times, but as a person of latino heritage i think this particular resto with its proximity to the only other Mexican resto in the area and its mural is kind of shitty and im never going to eat there. the idea that cultural appropriation is just nothing and that people from ethnic minority backgrounds should just stfu based on the fact that some people take policing appropriation to an egregious extreme - "this person with no Genovese heritage made pasta w/ pesto: burn him" - seems silly.

to the extent there's a problem here, it's that there is not economic equality between people of different ethnicities. the latino family that opened up their restaurant don't have access to the same cash that the other family does. (of course, there are plenty of examples of latinos opening up chic, slick restaurants.) the problem is not "appropriation" of food cultures or whatever. it's the underlying economic inequality. if there is a problem at all, which i'm not sure there is in your scenario.

there's no "problem", no one has been harmed, the hole in the wall enlarged its premises after the other place opened.

im not calling for a moratorium on people with x heritage making food from y culture. im just saying that i don't feel that my side-eye and distaste for the other resto is completely invalid, and based on something that doesn't exist/is irrelevant.

i don't think the actual appropriation is the problem as much as the sense by some people that the appropriation is giving legitimacy to a particular cuisine or "classing it up", idk. the most famous thai chef in the U.S. is probably Andy Ricker and the most famous Mexican chef in the U.S. is Rick Bayless. not saying they're undeserving of fame, they're excellent chefs afaik, but certainly their level of fame above other chefs operating in Thai and Mexican can be partially attributed to something other than food.

there's some specific niche for expensive places that serve "mexican" food where young white people go on dates. there's always at least one, with a group of dudes wearing whatever the current version of a striped shirt is, and his date wearing what looks like a prom dress

always at least one restaurant local to me, that is. i think it might have rotated to a different venue in recent years.

young white dudes wearing striped shirts should just stay home and eat mac & cheese or whatever

or just starve and die

egg wites

to the extent there's a problem here, it's that there is not economic equality between people of different ethnicities. the latino family that opened up their restaurant don't have access to the same cash that the other family does. (of course, there are plenty of examples of latinos opening up chic, slick restaurants.) the problem is not "appropriation" of food cultures or whatever. it's the underlying economic inequality. if there is a problem at all, which i'm not sure there is in your scenario.

― wizzz! (amateurist), Monday, March 7, 2016 4:31 PM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

a little reductive, "oh this is merely an economic inequality issue!!"

jim i feel u btw

i don't think the actual appropriation is the problem as much as the sense by some people that the appropriation is giving legitimacy to a particular cuisine or "classing it up", idk. the most famous thai chef in the U.S. is probably Andy Ricker and the most famous Mexican chef in the U.S. is Rick Bayless. not saying they're undeserving of fame, they're excellent chefs afaik, but certainly their level of fame above other chefs operating in Thai and Mexican can be partially attributed to something other than food.

― nomar, Monday, March 7, 2016 4:43 PM (30 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

good post

a little reductive, "oh this is merely an economic inequality issue!!"

― marcos, Monday, March 7, 2016 5:13 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

yeah i think a certain type of liberal - tends to be old and of the kum-ba-yah, we're all one race variety- tends to try to shortcut race by just saying everything is an economic or class issue instead of trying to address the racial factor as well

if you think this is just about making white ppl feeling 'guilty' when they go to an 'ethnic' restaurant or w/e that's a pretty blatant misreading and u can suck an egg. that means u, aimless

im on the record as saying that i don't really care when white ppl eat chinese food or make it at home or w/e they want to do. that's fine! go ahead.

but it does piss me off when white ppl try to monetize it. thats why i posted that excerpt from TAO upthread. i don't think it's cool one of the highest grossing restaurants in NYC is doing it off chinese-influenced food done by a white owner.

especially given the abject conditions a lot of recent chinese immigrants live in - the chinese buffet circuit up and down the east coast, etc.

young white dudes wearing striped shirts should just stay home and eat mac & cheese or whatever

or just starve and die

― brotato chip (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, March 7, 2016 5:07 PM (12 minutes ago) Bookmark

i'm cool with both of these positions and support them fyi

people who have money, when they go on dates, they typically go to "nice" places, irrespective of the cuisine or who owns the restaurant. this is not just true of "white ppl"

yeah i think a certain type of liberal - tends to be old and of the kum-ba-yah, we're all one race variety- tends to try to shortcut race by just saying everything is an economic or class issue instead of trying to address the racial factor as well

that's not what i'm saying at all. i'm saying that it doesn't matter what kind of food you eat or whether "white ppl" make mexican food or ghananian food or whatever. if there are "problems" w/ any of the scenarios you guys are describing (and i'm not convinced there are, honestly), then they have to do with dynamics other than "appropriation."

you guys write as if there aren't any mexican or african-american middle-class and rich people who go to nice restaurants

Kinda relieved to get permission to at least suck an egg tbh

as long as it was prepared in a traditionally irish way

Nah we absolutely encourage the bastardisation of our culture it makes it easier to drag other cultures down to our level

http://images1.miaminewtimes.com/imager/ogrimacy-on-a-shamrock-shake-cup-circa-19/u/original/6597696/shamrockshake.jpg